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taniwharugby

I've found in my limited experience with a couple of higher profile 'controversial' issues up this way is that those in opposition scream the loudest, claim to have so much support, yet when it comes down to it, don't appear to have it.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="509329" data-time="1439856735">
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Is the country really that apathetic about this? Or was he selectively quoting?
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I think a lot of people are at the moment. When we see the final four designs and the final two designs go head to head, I think people will care.

red terror

FYI, out of my own interest I checked wikipedia and there's a really good entry about the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Canadian_Flag_Debate'>Great Canadian Flag Debate</a>. The Conservatives bitterly opposed. It was forced from Parliament to a Committee. Their recommendations were brought back to the House of Commons where the Conservatives dug their heels in for six weeks debate and filibuster, and it was eventually passed in 1965.
 
This is interesting:
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">In 1958, an extensive poll was taken of the attitudes that adult Canadians held toward the flag. Of those who expressed opinions, over 80% wanted a national flag entirely different from that of any other nation, and 60% wanted their flag to bear the maple leaf.
 
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Personally, I believe people are generally resistant to change and the NZ flag will stay the same. Only flag I see defeating it is the black banner with silver fern, but I don't see that happening unless there's a groundswell of support as above.

red terror

<div> </div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"> Four alternative flag designs to be announced 
<div>The final four alternative flag designs will be released tomorrow - as a new poll shows nearly half of voters are open to a change.</div>
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<div>Those numbers could shift further after All Black captain Richie McCaw revealed he wants a change to a design with the silver fern - a symbol also favoured by Prime Minister John Key.</div>
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<div>"I think it's great that there is a debate about it. The silver fern is what it means to be a Kiwi and wearing the black jersey, so I am obviously biased in that regard," McCaw told 3News.</div>
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<div><img src="http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201536/GettyImages-485987744_620x311.jpg" alt="GettyImages-485987744_620x311.jpg"></div>
<div> </div>
<div>"The silver fern means a lot when you are playing for the All Blacks, something like that probably wouldn't hurt."</div>
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<div>A long-list of 40 alternative flag designs already released by a flag consideration panel has now been whittled down to a shortlist of four.</div>
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Cabinet was shown the designs today, and Prime Minister John Key said they were "excellent", and he would choose three of them over the current flag.
 
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11505765'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11505765</a>

rotated

Just on the Canadian flag I was looking at an exhibit on it the other day (50 years old this year) and it seems like the flag that actually was used and went most of the way in the debate was slightly different to the one they have now. Then when they got near the end they tidied it up to what we know today.
 
That's kind of where I am with this one. I want a Silver Fern flag, but I don't want THAT single silver fern flag that made the cut. I wish they could adjust the design of it.

Winger

Winger

I prefer flag two. Mainly because it includes black
 
I would use this flag at a rugby match as opposed to the black fern flag. Whereas I wouldn't use the red and blue + fern

jegga

I like flag two as well, I don't see blue as our colour. Red white and black I do though

Crucial

It will be interesting to see the 4. I wonder if they have settled on variations of a theme or 4 different designs.
 
I like the combo ones with the Silver Fern in the top left and the Southern Cross, but am undecided on the colouring I like best. At first I liked the red/white/blue version (the more conservative option) but the one with the black corner is growing on me.

jegga

I like flag two as well, I don't see blue as our colour. Red white and black I do though

Hooroo

Hooroo

Hooroo

If we change the flag I want it to somehow show a unified nation. Having a Black and White flag doesn't do this for me.
 
Hate the National/Labour flag too
 
I guess if we have to change it would be the Black and Blue with the Fern.

Hooroo

I can see what you have post, Crucial? Is it our current flag?

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="512692" data-time="1441060587">
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I can see what you have post, Crucial? Is it our current flag?
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No, I was posting them at the same time as you so deleted mine

Crucial

As usual the Stuff comments as the unveiling was going on trotted out every cliche in the book.
 
"look, others in the world are laughing at us"
"looks like a kid has been playing with crayons"
"should spend the money on something else"
"looks like a rugby theme"
 
If this is really indicative of how people think it shows just how much most people rely on talkback hosts for their thought processes.

JC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="512694" data-time="1441060829">
<div>
As usual the Stuff comments as the unveiling was going on trotted out every cliche in the book.
 
"look, others in the world are laughing at us"
"looks like a kid has been playing with crayons"
"should spend the money on something else"
"looks like a rugby theme"
 
If this is really indicative of how people think it shows just how much most people rely on talkback hosts for their thought processes.
</div>
</blockquote>
Yeah, Leighton Smith just might be the most influential person in the country. Which is pretty farking frightening.

Crucial

In a way the waters have been muddied by displaying 40 options that everyone has their favourites on.
 
After all the long winded part of this process at least the serious part starts now. We have 4 options from which to debate and choose our favourite then decide if we want to actually change.
 
I'm surprised that the fourth one made the final four. The second one is a compromise because a pure black flag doesn't work and ends up looking too much like a corporate logo sadly.
 
I think the third one is the one that will gain momentum. It keeps historic aspects but shows our forged identity as well.

JC

I can't see the koru one without thinking of this:
 
<img src="http://www.gstatic.com/tv/thumb/movieposters/15096/p15096_p_v7_aa.jpg" alt="p15096_p_v7_aa.jpg">
 
 
 
I dislike the black and white fern for some reason. It's like they zipped together two random bits of cloth.

taniwharugby

of those 4, I like the 3rd one.
 
My way of looking at it, the right side shows our history as it is part of our existing flag, while the black and the fern joins our national sporting identity with this.
 
Sounded way better in my head that the way I explained it....
 
edit just read Crucial saying pretty much same thing.

The Silver Fern

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