Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years
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M4L suggested this be set up.
Anyone can be considered who played in any game from the first test against the 1971 Lions and beyond - allowing Pinetree and Brian Lochore to be considered - along with several others.
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MJ, Jonah, Cully, McCaw, Carter.
Thead closed.
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Fitzpatrick would need to be in. Probably for Cullen.
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5 is damn hard. 6 would be better.
Iceman, DC, McCaw, Jonah, Cully, Fitzy would be my AB Mount Rushmore.
I was too young so can't comment first hand on Meads, Lochore, Whineray. BG Williams was revolutionary at the time
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McCaw is a given, so i think we are looking for four.
Carter is arguably the greatest 10 ever, a freaky talent. Averaged nearly 15 points a test!!
Lomu was rugby's first global super star. Surely in.
It's gonna get real murky after that (and I'm not yet sold on Carter).
Michael Jones. Zinny. Fitzy. JK. Cullen. Wilson. All amazing players.
And in the category, but before my time are some absolute legends.
How are we running it? Nominations and then a poll?
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@canefan said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
5 is damn hard. 6 would be better.
Iceman, DC, McCaw, Jonah, Cully, Fitzy would be my AB Mount Rushmore.
I was too young so can't comment first hand on Meads, Lochore, Whineray. BG Williams was revolutionary at the time
That's not copying my homework, that's stealing it.
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would some criteria help,
min number of tests = committed, continuous form and strong of body
just to help clarify things?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
min number of tests
Brian Lochore played 25 tests
Scott Barrett has played 36
firm criteria over a 50 year span is going to be tough.
I reckon we know the calibre of player we are looking at.
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@mariner4life fair enough, taken back
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@canefan said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
5 is damn hard. 6 would be better.
Iceman, DC, McCaw, Jonah, Cully, Fitzy would be my AB Mount Rushmore.
I was too young so can't comment first hand on Meads, Lochore, Whineray. BG Williams was revolutionary at the time
Can't really include them. All three woud make top 10 all time (throw in Clarke, Nepia, Gallaher etc) and maybe top 5. But not in the period under discussion.
In that time Meads played the whole Lions series, BJ only the one test. Whineray finished 1965.
Going may be in contention?
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Fitzy’s the forgotten great of NZ rugby. I think I’d swap out Cully for him in the list even though I feel dirty doing it.
MJ, McCaw, DC, Lomu, Fitzy or Cullen.
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Not really the best to comment as I'm one of the youngest on here and only watched rugby since I was 12, but:
Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Jonah Lomu, Brodie Retallick, Aaron Smith.
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Cullen shouldn't be there, IMO. He's my favourite of all time but he didn't do it for quite long enough at his peak. Ultimately, he never played a Lions Tour or well in a world cup. Some great moments but also not quite the complete full back.
I think Jonah Lomu isn't a definite either, although I can see why people have him there.
Zinzan Brooke is probably the name no-one has considered yet, who should be in the mix.
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@hydro11 they were the two I was cautious about. Good call.
Phenomenal rugby players, but I guess for me the 'greatest' is contribution to dragging teams to win.
Fitzy is in teh conversation for that for his work in 96 (and the duration of excellence).
I suspect Meads is in the chat for that as well, but before my time.
Maybe we need a 'best in their position' thread, and then pick 5 from there?
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when selecting just 5 you have to factor in all sorts, whereas naming a team of 15, Cully & Jonah at the back all day every day, because you know the 'best pack' we can pick will supply them enough ball to wreak havoc.
McCaw, DC, MJ are easy for me, after this is where it gets tricky...Fitzy, Zinny, Goldie, Cully, Lomu, JK, probably think of a few others who could slot into my top 5 too.
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@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@hydro11 they were the two I was cautious about. Good call.
Phenomenal rugby players, but I guess for me the 'greatest' is contribution to dragging teams to win.
Fitzy is in teh conversation for that for his work in 96 (and the duration of excellence).
I suspect Meads is in the chat for that as well, but before my time.
Maybe we need a 'best in their position' thread, and then pick 5 from there?
all time 15 of players I've seen, first to mind, first in.
15 Cullen
14 Kirwan
13 C Smith
12 Nonu
11 Lomu
10 Carter
9 A Smith
8 Read
7 McCaw
6 M Jones
5 Retallick
4 Whitelock
3 Franks
2 Fitzy
1 WoodcockSurprisingly easy.
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The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentioned -
@MN5 Franks over Brown?
Shame
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Mine are Cullen McCaw Carter Fitzpatrick Retallick.
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@Crucial I did think of him as I was typing about thinking of a few other names, based solely on his try scoring record, but despite this I dont think he had the same impact on me as a fan as Cully, Goldie or Lomu, even Oz.
Always interesting discussions though.
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@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@MN5 Franks over Brown?
Shame
Typical inter web. You may agree with the other 14 but you’ll rip the shit out of the one you don’t
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@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentionedHonestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.
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@MN5 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@MN5 Franks over Brown?
Shame
Typical inter web. You may agree with the other 14 but you’ll rip the shit out of the one you don’t
I'm trying to take the moral high ground. Seriously, though, remember Olo was so good he didn't have to trial one year. Ridiculous. Straightest back in the game, just a short 7 year career. I was, is and always will be a fan.
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My memory only goes back to the mid 80's, players who I really enjoyed watching and thought made a difference.
Goat
DC
MJ
CC
BBBR -
@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@MN5 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@MN5 Franks over Brown?
Shame
Typical inter web. You may agree with the other 14 but you’ll rip the shit out of the one you don’t
I'm trying to take the moral high ground. Seriously, though, remember Olo was so good he didn't have to trial one year. Ridiculous. Straightest back in the game, just a short 7 year career. I was, is and always will be a fan.
I never would have guessed you were a fan.
I'm assuming his phone was on silent or he was in a meeting when the producers of "Match Fit" were rounding up ex players ?
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@MN5 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
I'm assuming his phone was on silent or he was in a meeting when the producers of "Match Fit" were rounding up ex players ?
Dude's an accountant on the north shore. No idea how he scrubs up, but I can't see him being interested in publicity like that.
I'm surprised you could tell I like him. I try to keep it quiet roudn here
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@MN5 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@hydro11 they were the two I was cautious about. Good call.
Phenomenal rugby players, but I guess for me the 'greatest' is contribution to dragging teams to win.
Fitzy is in teh conversation for that for his work in 96 (and the duration of excellence).
I suspect Meads is in the chat for that as well, but before my time.
Maybe we need a 'best in their position' thread, and then pick 5 from there?
all time 15 of players I've seen, first to mind, first in.
15 Cullen
14 Kirwan
13 C Smith Bunce
12 Nonu
11 Lomu
10 Carter
9 A Smith
8 Read Zinny
7 McCaw MJ
6 M Jones Kaino
5 Retallick
4 Whitelock
3 Franks Brown
2 Fitzy
1 WoodcockSurprisingly easy.
My changes and yes I acknowledge that I'm not selecting the greatest AB of that time frame but it's my all time 15 of players and MJ is still the best rugby player I've ever seen.
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@Nepia said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@MN5 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@hydro11 they were the two I was cautious about. Good call.
Phenomenal rugby players, but I guess for me the 'greatest' is contribution to dragging teams to win.
Fitzy is in teh conversation for that for his work in 96 (and the duration of excellence).
I suspect Meads is in the chat for that as well, but before my time.
Maybe we need a 'best in their position' thread, and then pick 5 from there?
all time 15 of players I've seen, first to mind, first in.
15 Cullen
14 Kirwan
13 C Smith Bunce
12 Nonu
11 Lomu
10 Carter
9 A Smith
8 Read Zinny
7 McCaw MJ
6 M Jones Kaino
5 Retallick
4 Whitelock
3 Franks Brown
2 Fitzy
1 WoodcockSurprisingly easy.
My changes and yes I acknowledge that I'm not selecting the greatest AB of that time frame but it's my all time 15 of players and MJ is still the best rugby player I've ever seen.
It’s ok Neps. I accept that people will disagree on things from time to time.....especially on t’interweb.
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@hydro11 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentionedHonestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.
He wouldn’t be in my top five ABs just find it interesting that our record try scorer gets pretty much ignored even when people widen their lists
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@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@hydro11 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentionedHonestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.
He wouldn’t be in my top five ABs just find it interesting that our record try scorer gets pretty much ignored even when people widen their lists
He'd probably only just make the top 5 wings behind Lomu, JK, Joe Roks and Bridge.
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@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@hydro11 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentionedHonestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.
He wouldn’t be in my top five ABs just find it interesting that our record try scorer gets pretty much ignored even when people widen their lists
I think it’s probably cos people realise scoring tries isn’t everything. Shit, even Caleb Ralph got nine of them at test level.
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@Nepia shit even Goldie misses out!
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@Nepia said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@hydro11 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentionedHonestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.
He wouldn’t be in my top five ABs just find it interesting that our record try scorer gets pretty much ignored even when people widen their lists
He'd probably only just make the top 5 wings behind Lomu, JK, Joe Roks and Bridge.
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Anyway, for me.
McCaw
Lomu
Jones
CarterThen it is a toss up between Fitzy, Cully, Kirwan , Nonu, Umaga, Fox, Zinny.
After cutting that down I get to Cully and Fitzy and struggle to separate them.
Fitzpatrick is certainly an all time great and would deserve to be there but Cully was the best ball
runner we have ever had. -
First three that come to mind...Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Sean Fitzpatrick
then I struggle with a host of close arguments like this whole thread. I am leaning towards a fist fight between BBRR, Meads, Zinzan, Michael Jones and even in his era Grant Fox (Fox probably loses the fight against those other mongrels, but still there on merit) and apologies to all those amazing players that don't come to mind.
Since Meads was voted player of last century from NZ rugby he is in.
Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Sean Fitzpatrick, Colin Meads,
So for me it is between Zinny and Jones, world record try scoring forward and world cup drop goal scorer versus a genuine legend who dominated at seven then changed how we played at six just as amazingly.
So for me I have
Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Sean Fitzpatrick, Colin Meads, Michael Jonesbut incredibly tough to choose
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@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Anyway, for me.
McCaw
Lomu
Jones
CarterThen it is a toss up between Fitzy, Cully, Kirwan , Nonu, Umaga, Fox, Zinny.
After cutting that down I get to Cully and Fitzy and struggle to separate them.
Fitzpatrick is certainly an all time great and would deserve to be there but Cully was the best ball
runner we have ever had.I like your selections and if I was voting based on players I liked watching then my list would also have Lomu and Cullen. Both have just as a good an argument for top players ever in their position.
just shows you how tough a top 5 irrelevant of position is..
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R. McCaw
J. Lomu
D. Carter
Z. Brooke
A. Smith————-
M. Jones, S. Fitzpatrick, M. Nonu, G. Bachop -
@mariner4life said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
McCaw is a given, so i think we are looking for four.
Carter is arguably the greatest 10 ever, a freaky talent. Averaged nearly 15 points a test!!
Lomu was rugby's first global super star. Surely in.
It's gonna get real murky after that (and I'm not yet sold on Carter).
Michael Jones. Zinny. Fitzy. JK. Cullen. Wilson. All amazing players.
And in the category, but before my time are some absolute legends.
How are we running it? Nominations and then a poll?
Sorry, can't let that slide - 3x World Player of the Year; world's best ever player in arguably the most important position on the rugby pitch; match-winning performances in a RWC final and semi-final as his swansong; 100+ tests for the ABs; most complete individual performance by a 10 in AB an probably world rugby history (Lions 2005); and the resilience to come back after many, many injuries (including the devastation of 2011) and be the world's best player again. That's not even accounting for the fact that he also looked great in a pair of undies.
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@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@hydro11 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentionedHonestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.
He wouldn’t be in my top five ABs just find it interesting that our record try scorer gets pretty much ignored even when people widen their lists
He's the brown George Bridge
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Great thread and I think the way I like to look at these things is as follows... Who were my AB heroes as a kid? Who were my AB "contemporaries" carrying the flag for my generation?
Thinking very hard about the former, the names I come up with are Fitzy, Zinny, JK, Jonah, Iceman.
The latter, Richie, DC, Ma'a, Conrad, Mils, Kaino.
Choosing the top 5 out of those lists is hard, but would probably be Fitzy, JK, Jonah, Richie and DC.
