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    Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years

    Sports Talk
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    • Chris B.
      Chris B. last edited by Duluth

      M4L suggested this be set up.

      Anyone can be considered who played in any game from the first test against the 1971 Lions and beyond - allowing Pinetree and Brian Lochore to be considered - along with several others.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • MN5
        MN5 last edited by

        MJ, Jonah, Cully, McCaw, Carter.

        Thead closed.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
        • booboo
          booboo last edited by

          Fitzpatrick would need to be in. Probably for Cullen.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • canefan
            canefan last edited by canefan

            5 is damn hard. 6 would be better.

            Iceman, DC, McCaw, Jonah, Cully, Fitzy would be my AB Mount Rushmore.

            I was too young so can't comment first hand on Meads, Lochore, Whineray. BG Williams was revolutionary at the time

            MN5 booboo 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • mariner4life
              mariner4life last edited by

              McCaw is a given, so i think we are looking for four.

              Carter is arguably the greatest 10 ever, a freaky talent. Averaged nearly 15 points a test!!

              Lomu was rugby's first global super star. Surely in.

              It's gonna get real murky after that (and I'm not yet sold on Carter).

              Michael Jones. Zinny. Fitzy. JK. Cullen. Wilson. All amazing players.

              And in the category, but before my time are some absolute legends.

              How are we running it? Nominations and then a poll?

              J antipodean 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • MN5
                MN5 @canefan last edited by

                @canefan said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                5 is damn hard. 6 would be better.

                Iceman, DC, McCaw, Jonah, Cully, Fitzy would be my AB Mount Rushmore.

                I was too young so can't comment first hand on Meads, Lochore, Whineray. BG Williams was revolutionary at the time

                That's not copying my homework, that's stealing it.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                • Kiwiwomble
                  Kiwiwomble last edited by

                  would some criteria help,

                  min number of tests = committed, continuous form and strong of body

                  just to help clarify things?

                  mariner4life 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • mariner4life
                    mariner4life @Kiwiwomble last edited by

                    @Kiwiwomble said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                    min number of tests

                    Brian Lochore played 25 tests

                    Scott Barrett has played 36

                    firm criteria over a 50 year span is going to be tough.

                    I reckon we know the calibre of player we are looking at.

                    Kiwiwomble 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                    • Kiwiwomble
                      Kiwiwomble @mariner4life last edited by

                      @mariner4life fair enough, taken back

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • booboo
                        booboo @canefan last edited by

                        @canefan said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                        5 is damn hard. 6 would be better.

                        Iceman, DC, McCaw, Jonah, Cully, Fitzy would be my AB Mount Rushmore.

                        I was too young so can't comment first hand on Meads, Lochore, Whineray. BG Williams was revolutionary at the time

                        Can't really include them. All three woud make top 10 all time (throw in Clarke, Nepia, Gallaher etc) and maybe top 5. But not in the period under discussion.

                        In that time Meads played the whole Lions series, BJ only the one test. Whineray finished 1965.

                        Going may be in contention?

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • Nepia
                          Nepia last edited by

                          Fitzy’s the forgotten great of NZ rugby. I think I’d swap out Cully for him in the list even though I feel dirty doing it.

                          MJ, McCaw, DC, Lomu, Fitzy or Cullen.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • Yeetyaah
                            Yeetyaah last edited by

                            Not really the best to comment as I'm one of the youngest on here and only watched rugby since I was 12, but:

                            Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Jonah Lomu, Brodie Retallick, Aaron Smith.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                            • H
                              hydro11 last edited by

                              Cullen shouldn't be there, IMO. He's my favourite of all time but he didn't do it for quite long enough at his peak. Ultimately, he never played a Lions Tour or well in a world cup. Some great moments but also not quite the complete full back.

                              I think Jonah Lomu isn't a definite either, although I can see why people have him there.

                              Zinzan Brooke is probably the name no-one has considered yet, who should be in the mix.

                              nzzp 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                              • nzzp
                                nzzp @hydro11 last edited by

                                @hydro11 they were the two I was cautious about. Good call.

                                Phenomenal rugby players, but I guess for me the 'greatest' is contribution to dragging teams to win.

                                Fitzy is in teh conversation for that for his work in 96 (and the duration of excellence).

                                I suspect Meads is in the chat for that as well, but before my time.

                                Maybe we need a 'best in their position' thread, and then pick 5 from there?

                                MN5 Victor Meldrew 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • taniwharugby
                                  taniwharugby last edited by

                                  when selecting just 5 you have to factor in all sorts, whereas naming a team of 15, Cully & Jonah at the back all day every day, because you know the 'best pack' we can pick will supply them enough ball to wreak havoc.

                                  McCaw, DC, MJ are easy for me, after this is where it gets tricky...Fitzy, Zinny, Goldie, Cully, Lomu, JK, probably think of a few others who could slot into my top 5 too.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • MN5
                                    MN5 @nzzp last edited by

                                    @nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                    @hydro11 they were the two I was cautious about. Good call.

                                    Phenomenal rugby players, but I guess for me the 'greatest' is contribution to dragging teams to win.

                                    Fitzy is in teh conversation for that for his work in 96 (and the duration of excellence).

                                    I suspect Meads is in the chat for that as well, but before my time.

                                    Maybe we need a 'best in their position' thread, and then pick 5 from there?

                                    all time 15 of players I've seen, first to mind, first in.

                                    15 Cullen
                                    14 Kirwan
                                    13 C Smith
                                    12 Nonu
                                    11 Lomu
                                    10 Carter
                                    9 A Smith
                                    8 Read
                                    7 McCaw
                                    6 M Jones
                                    5 Retallick
                                    4 Whitelock
                                    3 Franks
                                    2 Fitzy
                                    1 Woodcock

                                    Surprisingly easy.

                                    nzzp Nepia 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                    • Crucial
                                      Crucial last edited by

                                      The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
                                      Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentioned

                                      taniwharugby H broughie 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • nzzp
                                        nzzp @MN5 last edited by

                                        @MN5 Franks over Brown?

                                        Shame

                                        MN5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 7
                                        • A
                                          ARHS last edited by

                                          Mine are Cullen McCaw Carter Fitzpatrick Retallick.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • taniwharugby
                                            taniwharugby @Crucial last edited by taniwharugby

                                            @Crucial I did think of him as I was typing about thinking of a few other names, based solely on his try scoring record, but despite this I dont think he had the same impact on me as a fan as Cully, Goldie or Lomu, even Oz.

                                            Always interesting discussions though.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • MN5
                                              MN5 @nzzp last edited by

                                              @nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                              @MN5 Franks over Brown?

                                              Shame

                                              Typical inter web. You may agree with the other 14 but you’ll rip the shit out of the one you don’t 🙂

                                              nzzp 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • H
                                                hydro11 @Crucial last edited by

                                                @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
                                                Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentioned

                                                Honestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.

                                                Crucial 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • nzzp
                                                  nzzp @MN5 last edited by

                                                  @MN5 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                  @nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                  @MN5 Franks over Brown?

                                                  Shame

                                                  Typical inter web. You may agree with the other 14 but you’ll rip the shit out of the one you don’t 🙂

                                                  I'm trying to take the moral high ground. Seriously, though, remember Olo was so good he didn't have to trial one year. Ridiculous. Straightest back in the game, just a short 7 year career. I was, is and always will be a fan.

                                                  MN5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                  • chimoaus
                                                    chimoaus last edited by

                                                    My memory only goes back to the mid 80's, players who I really enjoyed watching and thought made a difference.

                                                    Goat
                                                    DC
                                                    MJ
                                                    CC
                                                    BBBR

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                    • MN5
                                                      MN5 @nzzp last edited by

                                                      @nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                      @MN5 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                      @nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                      @MN5 Franks over Brown?

                                                      Shame

                                                      Typical inter web. You may agree with the other 14 but you’ll rip the shit out of the one you don’t 🙂

                                                      I'm trying to take the moral high ground. Seriously, though, remember Olo was so good he didn't have to trial one year. Ridiculous. Straightest back in the game, just a short 7 year career. I was, is and always will be a fan.

                                                      I never would have guessed you were a fan.

                                                      I'm assuming his phone was on silent or he was in a meeting when the producers of "Match Fit" were rounding up ex players ?

                                                      nzzp 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                      • nzzp
                                                        nzzp @MN5 last edited by

                                                        @MN5 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                        I'm assuming his phone was on silent or he was in a meeting when the producers of "Match Fit" were rounding up ex players ?

                                                        Dude's an accountant on the north shore. No idea how he scrubs up, but I can't see him being interested in publicity like that.

                                                        I'm surprised you could tell I like him. I try to keep it quiet roudn here 🙂

                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                        • Nepia
                                                          Nepia @MN5 last edited by Nepia

                                                          @MN5 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                          @nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                          @hydro11 they were the two I was cautious about. Good call.

                                                          Phenomenal rugby players, but I guess for me the 'greatest' is contribution to dragging teams to win.

                                                          Fitzy is in teh conversation for that for his work in 96 (and the duration of excellence).

                                                          I suspect Meads is in the chat for that as well, but before my time.

                                                          Maybe we need a 'best in their position' thread, and then pick 5 from there?

                                                          all time 15 of players I've seen, first to mind, first in.

                                                          15 Cullen
                                                          14 Kirwan
                                                          13 C Smith Bunce
                                                          12 Nonu
                                                          11 Lomu
                                                          10 Carter
                                                          9 A Smith
                                                          8 Read Zinny
                                                          7 McCaw MJ
                                                          6 M Jones Kaino
                                                          5 Retallick
                                                          4 Whitelock
                                                          3 Franks Brown
                                                          2 Fitzy
                                                          1 Woodcock

                                                          Surprisingly easy.

                                                          My changes and yes I acknowledge that I'm not selecting the greatest AB of that time frame but it's my all time 15 of players and MJ is still the best rugby player I've ever seen.

                                                          MN5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                          • MN5
                                                            MN5 @Nepia last edited by

                                                            @Nepia said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                            @MN5 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                            @nzzp said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                            @hydro11 they were the two I was cautious about. Good call.

                                                            Phenomenal rugby players, but I guess for me the 'greatest' is contribution to dragging teams to win.

                                                            Fitzy is in teh conversation for that for his work in 96 (and the duration of excellence).

                                                            I suspect Meads is in the chat for that as well, but before my time.

                                                            Maybe we need a 'best in their position' thread, and then pick 5 from there?

                                                            all time 15 of players I've seen, first to mind, first in.

                                                            15 Cullen
                                                            14 Kirwan
                                                            13 C Smith Bunce
                                                            12 Nonu
                                                            11 Lomu
                                                            10 Carter
                                                            9 A Smith
                                                            8 Read Zinny
                                                            7 McCaw MJ
                                                            6 M Jones Kaino
                                                            5 Retallick
                                                            4 Whitelock
                                                            3 Franks Brown
                                                            2 Fitzy
                                                            1 Woodcock

                                                            Surprisingly easy.

                                                            My changes and yes I acknowledge that I'm not selecting the greatest AB of that time frame but it's my all time 15 of players and MJ is still the best rugby player I've ever seen.

                                                            It’s ok Neps. I accept that people will disagree on things from time to time.....especially on t’interweb.

                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                            • Crucial
                                                              Crucial @hydro11 last edited by

                                                              @hydro11 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                              @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                              The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
                                                              Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentioned

                                                              Honestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.

                                                              He wouldn’t be in my top five ABs just find it interesting that our record try scorer gets pretty much ignored even when people widen their lists

                                                              Nepia MN5 J 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                              • Nepia
                                                                Nepia @Crucial last edited by

                                                                @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                @hydro11 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
                                                                Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentioned

                                                                Honestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.

                                                                He wouldn’t be in my top five ABs just find it interesting that our record try scorer gets pretty much ignored even when people widen their lists

                                                                He'd probably only just make the top 5 wings behind Lomu, JK, Joe Roks and Bridge.

                                                                taniwharugby MN5 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 7
                                                                • MN5
                                                                  MN5 @Crucial last edited by

                                                                  @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                  @hydro11 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                  @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                  The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
                                                                  Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentioned

                                                                  Honestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.

                                                                  He wouldn’t be in my top five ABs just find it interesting that our record try scorer gets pretty much ignored even when people widen their lists

                                                                  I think it’s probably cos people realise scoring tries isn’t everything. Shit, even Caleb Ralph got nine of them at test level.

                                                                  Rancid Schnitzel 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                  • taniwharugby
                                                                    taniwharugby @Nepia last edited by

                                                                    @Nepia shit even Goldie misses out!

                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                    • MN5
                                                                      MN5 @Nepia last edited by MN5

                                                                      @Nepia said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                      @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                      @hydro11 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                      @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                      The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
                                                                      Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentioned

                                                                      Honestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.

                                                                      He wouldn’t be in my top five ABs just find it interesting that our record try scorer gets pretty much ignored even when people widen their lists

                                                                      He'd probably only just make the top 5 wings behind Lomu, JK, Joe Roks and Bridge.

                                                                      B6CE9023-5398-485B-91A1-BE0423F4F2E5.jpeg

                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                                      • Crucial
                                                                        Crucial last edited by

                                                                        Anyway, for me.
                                                                        McCaw
                                                                        Lomu
                                                                        Jones
                                                                        Carter

                                                                        Then it is a toss up between Fitzy, Cully, Kirwan , Nonu, Umaga, Fox, Zinny.

                                                                        After cutting that down I get to Cully and Fitzy and struggle to separate them.
                                                                        Fitzpatrick is certainly an all time great and would deserve to be there but Cully was the best ball
                                                                        runner we have ever had.

                                                                        B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                        • B
                                                                          bayimports last edited by bayimports

                                                                          First three that come to mind...Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Sean Fitzpatrick

                                                                          then I struggle with a host of close arguments like this whole thread. I am leaning towards a fist fight between BBRR, Meads, Zinzan, Michael Jones and even in his era Grant Fox (Fox probably loses the fight against those other mongrels, but still there on merit) and apologies to all those amazing players that don't come to mind.

                                                                          Since Meads was voted player of last century from NZ rugby he is in.

                                                                          Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Sean Fitzpatrick, Colin Meads,

                                                                          So for me it is between Zinny and Jones, world record try scoring forward and world cup drop goal scorer versus a genuine legend who dominated at seven then changed how we played at six just as amazingly.

                                                                          So for me I have
                                                                          Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Sean Fitzpatrick, Colin Meads, Michael Jones

                                                                          but incredibly tough to choose

                                                                          dogmeat 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                          • B
                                                                            bayimports @Crucial last edited by

                                                                            @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                            Anyway, for me.
                                                                            McCaw
                                                                            Lomu
                                                                            Jones
                                                                            Carter

                                                                            Then it is a toss up between Fitzy, Cully, Kirwan , Nonu, Umaga, Fox, Zinny.

                                                                            After cutting that down I get to Cully and Fitzy and struggle to separate them.
                                                                            Fitzpatrick is certainly an all time great and would deserve to be there but Cully was the best ball
                                                                            runner we have ever had.

                                                                            I like your selections and if I was voting based on players I liked watching then my list would also have Lomu and Cullen. Both have just as a good an argument for top players ever in their position.

                                                                            just shows you how tough a top 5 irrelevant of position is..

                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • ACT Crusader
                                                                              ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                                              R. McCaw
                                                                              J. Lomu
                                                                              D. Carter
                                                                              Z. Brooke
                                                                              A. Smith

                                                                              ————-
                                                                              M. Jones, S. Fitzpatrick, M. Nonu, G. Bachop

                                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                              • J
                                                                                junior @mariner4life last edited by

                                                                                @mariner4life said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                                McCaw is a given, so i think we are looking for four.

                                                                                Carter is arguably the greatest 10 ever, a freaky talent. Averaged nearly 15 points a test!!

                                                                                Lomu was rugby's first global super star. Surely in.

                                                                                It's gonna get real murky after that (and I'm not yet sold on Carter).

                                                                                Michael Jones. Zinny. Fitzy. JK. Cullen. Wilson. All amazing players.

                                                                                And in the category, but before my time are some absolute legends.

                                                                                How are we running it? Nominations and then a poll?

                                                                                Sorry, can't let that slide - 3x World Player of the Year; world's best ever player in arguably the most important position on the rugby pitch; match-winning performances in a RWC final and semi-final as his swansong; 100+ tests for the ABs; most complete individual performance by a 10 in AB an probably world rugby history (Lions 2005); and the resilience to come back after many, many injuries (including the devastation of 2011) and be the world's best player again. That's not even accounting for the fact that he also looked great in a pair of undies.

                                                                                MN5 gt12 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 7
                                                                                • J
                                                                                  junior @Crucial last edited by

                                                                                  @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                                  @hydro11 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                                  @Crucial said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:

                                                                                  The forgotten man of these conversations is Dougie Howlett.
                                                                                  Not saying he would end up in my selection but certainly worth a mention as the record try scorer in black. Considering that players like Cully, Rok, Wilson, Bender and Lomu are below him on the table and even BB after way more tests is going to be stretching to catch him I just find it interesting that his name doesn’t get mentioned

                                                                                  Honestly, I would take Rococoko ahead of Howlett. Savea had a better strike rate than Howlett but he isn't in the conversation.

                                                                                  He wouldn’t be in my top five ABs just find it interesting that our record try scorer gets pretty much ignored even when people widen their lists

                                                                                  He's the brown George Bridge

                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                  • J
                                                                                    junior last edited by

                                                                                    Great thread and I think the way I like to look at these things is as follows... Who were my AB heroes as a kid? Who were my AB "contemporaries" carrying the flag for my generation?

                                                                                    Thinking very hard about the former, the names I come up with are Fitzy, Zinny, JK, Jonah, Iceman.

                                                                                    The latter, Richie, DC, Ma'a, Conrad, Mils, Kaino.

                                                                                    Choosing the top 5 out of those lists is hard, but would probably be Fitzy, JK, Jonah, Richie and DC.

                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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