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@majorrage said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
And the pound responds by strengthening ... tells you all you need to know about Boris Johnson.
Tanking now ... the end of May, surely.... SURELY.
Hide of a rhino that one.
I did have to laugh that reportedly Boris and mates were told at Chequers on Friday that if they opposed her stance they were to resign there and then and someone else would get their ministerial car ride home. Of course they couldn't dare let the chauffeur drive some junior nobody home so delayed their resignation until after a decent Sunday brunch.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
Tanking now ... the end of May, surely.... SURELY.
She has a wafer-thin majority with a majority of MP's across all parties seemingly looking to keep the UK as closely tied to the EU as possible - despite the referendum result.
Is there really anyone who can wrest control of the situation that (mainly May) has created?
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@crucial said in British Politics:
I did have to laugh that reportedly Boris and mates were told at Chequers on Friday that if they opposed her stance they were to resign there and then and someone else would get their ministerial car ride home.
That sort of approach by May seems to have caused a lot of the divisions in the Conservative Party. Even those who support May have said that the way she and her advisers have gone about things has been childish and built a huge amount of distrust in her.
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
Tanking now ... the end of May, surely.... SURELY.
She has a wafer-thin majority with a majority of MP's across all parties seemingly looking to keep the UK as closely tied to the EU as possible - despite the referendum result.
Is there really anyone who can wrest control of the situation that (mainly May) has created?
To be fair to May, she inherited the poisoned chalice that the Brexit referendum created. The architects of that balls up, Cameron and Osborne just fucked off. The leading Brexiteers were not prepared to take the reins and the consequences of doing so. May's big blunder, well two really, was to call a General Election and then to campaign so woefully. Prior to the GE she had a workable majority and could take a much stronger line with her own party. Since then she's been on a knife edge. it really is an impossible situation.
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@no-quarter said in British Politics:
What the fuck is going on here. Sacked for stating that gender is biological and determined at birth? And since when is that just a "religious" belief? It's not a fucking belief, it's science.
Fuck me this is not hard to understand. A trans woman is not medically a woman. A trans man is not medically a man. They are transsexual. That's actually important when it comes to health.
Doctor is obviously an idiot.
Gender is defined before birth, probably conception...
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@booboo said in British Politics:
@no-quarter said in British Politics:
What the fuck is going on here. Sacked for stating that gender is biological and determined at birth? And since when is that just a "religious" belief? It's not a fucking belief, it's science.
Fuck me this is not hard to understand. A trans woman is not medically a woman. A trans man is not medically a man. They are transsexual. That's actually important when it comes to health.
Doctor is obviously an idiot.
Gender is defined before birth, probably conception...
Haha yeah, about 8 - 9 weeks I believe. So they're all wrong.
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@no-quarter The whole topic is yet another thing we can blame the Chiefs for - or more specifically, fucking Mooloo supporters!
I'm amazed he found time to coach the Warriors!
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@chris-b said in British Politics:
@no-quarter The whole topic is yet another thing we can blame the Chiefs for - or more specifically, fucking Mooloo supporters!
I'm amazed he found time to coach the Warriors!
n.b. it is worthwhile reading around this article, which makes pretty clear that Money introduced the term gender to mean something beyond biological sex.
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@chris-b said in British Politics:
@chris-b said in British Politics:
@no-quarter The whole topic is yet another thing we can blame the Chiefs for - or more specifically, fucking Mooloo supporters!
I'm amazed he found time to coach the Warriors!
n.b. it is worthwhile reading around this article, which makes pretty clear that Money introduced the term gender to mean something beyond biological sex.
Yeah, I'm aware of his work and the concept that gender is separate to sex. If people want to be known as the other gender despite their biology, then they can go for their lives - though the mental health stats for openly transgender people are shocking.
What they can't do is demand others call them by that gender, and even more ridiculous is when they demand people call them by some made up gender that makes absolutely no sense.
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Brexit isn't any poisoned chalice - it's the result of a referendum. The mess is caused by politicians who didn't get the result they expected and want to stay as close as possible to the EU at whatever the cost. Over 110 (out of 650) MP's voted to ignore the referendum result, for example.
IMO, it's part of a bigger, underlying issue where politicians haven't just lost touch with the public, they are openly contemptuous of their concerns. PM Gordon Brown called a woman who expressed concern about the impact of large numbers of Eastern European immigrants on public services "a bigoted old white woman"
Yeah, May screwed up the snap election (and many other things) but even if she had won a big majority the same problem of a Parliament reluctant to implement the referendum result would still be there.
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All very true. Reality is though is that (in the short term) the only way the UK can come out of the EU in a strong position is with a Trump-esque style of leadership.
Pissing around, pandering to the people does absolutely nothing.
And I think it's hard to push a Brexit ideology when in reality, nobody whose making the decisions actually think it's a good idea.
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@victor-meldrew The poisoned chalice is being Prime Minister and trying to implement the will of the people against the wishes of parliament. That's a lot to do with why Cameron fucked off and why the likes of Gove and Johnson were reluctant to put their hands up.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
the only way the UK can come out of the EU in a strong position is with a Trump-esque style of leadership.
Any sort of leadership would do.
A bit of pandering to the people might be a good thing. Bit of a change from pandering to vested interests.
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To be fair to Boris, he did put his hat in the ring and was then screwed by Gove. (faintly disturbing imagery...)
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
the only way the UK can come out of the EU in a strong position is with a Trump-esque style of leadership.
Any sort of leadership would do.
A bit of pandering to the people might be a good thing. Bit of a change from pandering to vested interests.
The way the UK parliament works is on a simple majority. Most MPs vote along party lines, if a PM has a large majority they can afford not to pander to some of those MPs that hold views contrary to the party line as they still have enough votes. If a PM only has a slender majority, or no majority in May's case then they are stuck pandering to all and sundry just to get anything done. The reality is that under the current circumstances there is no effective leadership (so I sort of get your first comment).
Pandering to the people is impossible, people are far too fickle in general and more often than not poorly informed. it's one reason why referenda are rarely a good thing. We elect a Government every five years to make our decisions for us, if we don't like the decisions they make they get chucked out. Having a referendum is just a sop to appease either a certain section of the electorate or to keep a certain political group onside.
We are now seeing the result of having a referendum, the people have spoken and now the Government has to implement that decision (which is only right), but they are ill prepared to implement it and also generally unwilling. It's a complete dog's breakfast.
Now this is not me saying we shouldn't implement Brexit, we've had the referendum and we know the result and that is pretty clear. This is me saying we should never have had the referendum in the first place and rarely, if ever should we have another - on any topic.
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
Brexit isn't any poisoned chalice - it's the result of a referendum. The mess is caused by politicians who didn't get the result they expected and want to stay as close as possible to the EU at whatever the cost. Over 110 (out of 650) MP's voted to ignore the referendum result, for example.
IMO, it's part of a bigger, underlying issue where politicians haven't just lost touch with the public, they are openly contemptuous of their concerns. PM Gordon Brown called a woman who expressed concern about the impact of large numbers of Eastern European immigrants on public services "a bigoted old white woman"
Yeah, May screwed up the snap election (and many other things) but even if she had won a big majority the same problem of a Parliament reluctant to implement the referendum result would still be there.
I don't disagree with your point about losing touch but the referendum itself has caused the problem. Why ask such a binary undefined question without any plan or explanation of what Brexit actually meant.
I had plenty of discussions with people around the time and they all had different ideas of what 'leave' actually meant.
First thing I ask when offered a job is 'do you clearly know your requirements and what level of definition are they at?' A project that is vague and poorly defined is doomed to fail in key areas.
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
To be fair to Boris, he did put his hat in the ring and was then screwed by Gove. (faintly disturbing imagery...)
On the face of it yes, but they are both canny politicians and they don't seem too antagonistic towards each other now.
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@crucial said in British Politics:
I don't disagree with your point about losing touch but the referendum itself has caused the problem. Why ask such a binary undefined question without any plan or explanation of what Brexit actually meant.
The "people didn't know what Leave actually meant" argument is a pretty shallow one IMHO. It could apply to any election or party manifesto. You could equally argue that point with any future EU integration/changes if there had been a Remain win. (I voted Remain BTW)
The referendum hasn't caused the problem. It's the result and the way politicians and influencers have reacted to it that has caused the problem. It's exposed fault lines in the system which would have remained hidden if the Remain campaign had won. Where it's heading, no-one knows..
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@catogrande said in British Politics:
We elect a Government every five years to make our decisions for us, if we don't like the decisions they make they get chucked out.
We did just that. We elected a government in 2015 and they decided to hold a referendum.
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Don't buy that. Unless there was some grand conspiracy by Boris and Gove to ensure they didn't become PM to ensure Boris could resign as Foreign Secretary two years later
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