NZ Eligibility
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 so just identifying is all good?
Like identifying as a Female weightlifter?
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
The debate was whether or not it is OK to pick some one who comes to NZ for reasons related to rugby (either as a professional or as a teenager who uses rugby to further their education or professional rugby player aspirations).
The point was made that you should be a kiwi to play for the ABs.
We've moved on to a discussion of whether being 'kiwi' means you need to be a citizen. We heard examples of kids who are clearly descending from actual kiwis to illustrate that you can be a kiwi without being a citizen.
You also heard examples of adults who don't descend from citizens to illustrate that you can be a Kiwi without being a citizen.So, therefore because of such cases, if you identify as a kiwi, you should be able to come here as high schooler, not necessarily demonstrate any ongoing relationship to the country, and perhaps have no intention to stay here for any amount of time longer than 3 days after you are no longer an AB.
In other words, let's go wild in the Pacific Islands.
That's your interpretation/conclusion. Not mine. I spoke of residents with close ties and significant contributions to the community. They do not only identify as Kiwis; their friends, colleagues and other people they know, also consider them to be Kiwis. They're not paper Kiwis like all those with citizenship overseas, who have near to zero connection to the country and contribute nothing.
-
@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
They're not paper Kiwis like all those with citizenship overseas, who have near to zero connection to the country and contribute nothing.
-
Kiwis. Everyone is trying to be a genetically modified Chinese gooseberry these days.
-
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
She's a Cornish kiwi
It's "Hi yw Kiwi kernewek" in the local lingo.....
I have dual citizenship, but, like you, pretty much regard myself as a Kiwi even though I've spent well over half of my life in the UK. I think a lot has to do with the country you grow up in and less the one you were born in.
I really don't have a problem with someone coming to NZ or the UK as a teenager and then playing, say, for Wales (Faletau is a good example). I do have some concerns about professional players like Bundi Aki playing for a NH or NZ team for a few years and then qualifying for a country, but that's a tricky one to manage.
-
@junior said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@stargazer I'm sure there are kids all around the world who dream of becoming an All Black. For some reason I remain convinced that the pathway shouldn't be open to kids offered an inducement to school in another country solely because they're good at rugby.
I'd actually prefer they were "New Zealanders" first which would allow for those who migrate as kids with their families.
In this kids like Segner would also be excluded unless he intended first and foremost to become a New Zealand citizen.
My view is that eligibility should be tied to citizenship (difficult for the home nations, obvs). You just can't quibble with some playing for a country of which they are a citizen. So, if someone migrates to a country at whatever age and is granted citizenship in accordance with the laws of that country, why shouldn't they then play rugby for that country?
That would stop the current farcical situation where you have a guy who plays pro rugby in England for 3 years, play international rugby for England for a further 2 years and then comes back to NZ to live the rest of his life in rugby retirement.
Citizenship requirement assumed said country is and will act ethically.
Certain middle eastern countries have been known to purchase decent Olympic middle distance runng squads.
I prefer WR have it's criteria. I just think some of them can be tightened.
-
-
@kirwan said in NZ Eligibility:
So basically Stargazer has reduced the poaching argument to if the feel like Kiwis they aren’t poaches.
Someone get WR on the phone!
And I wonder what the motivation for that attitude is...
-
@mariner4life said in NZ Eligibility:
@kirwan said in NZ Eligibility:
So basically Stargazer has reduced the poaching argument to if the feel like Kiwis they aren’t poaches.
Someone get WR on the phone!
And I wonder what the motivation for that attitude is...
His school, province, franchise and nation.
-
@machpants said in NZ Eligibility:
The poach maybe by secondary schools trying to up their first XV, rather than by NZR, but it is still a poach from the islands. I'd rather NZR said we won't pick these players by choice, so they could still get their education, and probably a job in the NH later. But they would be available for their homeland. If they come to NZ to play rugby, is a poach IMO. It maybe done by schools but NZR aren't doing anything to discourage it
Apologies if this has already been addressed but I’m not sure if the NZR is able by law not to pick them. Isn’t there some human rights factor there or something? If they themselves choose to make themselves eligible and want to play for NZ then what can you do?
I’m definitely not comfortable with these kinds of selections but if they genuinely want to wear black and that jersey means as much to them as it does to us then it’s hard to deny them that.
I would also note that this “poach” stuff only seems to apply to Islanders. Nobody seems to give a crap about Gallagher (and AB great) or Devine. TKB was born and raised in Australia wasn’t he? And would anyone have cared if that Pom who was running round for the Blues a few years back (the name escapes me) was selected for the ABs?
-
@machpants said in NZ Eligibility:
[EDIT - Split from All Blacks v Fiji 2]
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Samisoni Taukeiaho,To make his debut of the Bench,Coles out with a calf problem.
Ugh, four poaches in the 23
Downvote on this thread. I don't like to see individuals dumped on opportunistically like this by faceless Internet posting sequences.
They are real people whose huge efforts and commitments over many years are shaped by the rules within their sport and the acceptedly questionable ethics of high school recruitment agents.
There are so many players who attract constant vitriol in this forum and I suspect most of it is an excuse to run them down for getting picked ahead of the posters local guy.
How about the odd congratulatory post and save the pointed arguments for the lawmakers and those who selfishly break the spirit of them. The sport nz balance is better thing needs to be pushed for the good of all instead of through misguided tokenism. Kids and their families are making big decisions far too young.
Congrats Samisoni for working on improving your throwing and hitting and running so hard for the past 5 years. That said Ash Dixon deserves an AB Jersey too.
Angry old man thing done for today. Now I can prepare for the drive to the Samoa v Tonga match. -
-
@rancid-schnitzel Marchant? (See he was in the England XXIII last week)
-
@arhs said in NZ Eligibility:
@machpants said in NZ Eligibility:
[EDIT - Split from All Blacks v Fiji 2]
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Samisoni Taukeiaho,To make his debut of the Bench,Coles out with a calf problem.
Ugh, four poaches in the 23
Downvote on this thread. I don't like to see individuals dumped on opportunistically like this by faceless Internet posting sequences.
They are real people whose huge efforts and commitments over many years are shaped by the rules within their sport and the acceptedly questionable ethics of high school recruitment agents.
There are so many players who attract constant vitriol in this forum and I suspect most of it is an excuse to run them down for getting picked ahead of the posters local guy.
How about the odd congratulatory post and save the pointed arguments for the lawmakers and those who selfishly break the spirit of them. The sport nz balance is better thing needs to be pushed for the good of all instead of through misguided tokenism. Kids and their families are making big decisions far too young.
Congrats Samisoni for working on improving your throwing and hitting and running so hard for the past 5 years. That said Ash Dixon deserves an AB Jersey too.
Angry old man thing done for today. Now I can prepare for the drive to the Samoa v Tonga match.I don't see criticism of the individuals. Far from it.
The criticism is of the system and the results .