Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour
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I forgot to say earlier that Nepo actually had a good game apart from you know what...
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@nostrildamus said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
thing is BB could have been yellow carded but a Welsh player was also very lucky.
I am clearly not arguing that and it appears to be a bit of luck regardless, so I am guessing like me you dont know the exact rule either
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@bayimports sorry although my post appeared below yours and I did not specify, mine was more regards S Jones and Welsh fans online only talking about BB, not your post.
Regards whether I know how it should be reffed, I am not a ref but I actually did look it up before I looked and found the ref's article posted earlier and I did not find anything about a yellow card required here (https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/home), but I personally thought BB was lucky, he had very little chance of catching that, I think he was going for it, but I don't expect an international ref to not think it was a cynical move. -
@broughie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@mikethesnow I’m not sure that blackadders hit sent him lower but it was no arms so there was a case for yellow card. Your guy needed YC for being a dumb fluffy bunny and ducking his head. He created a situation where injury was probable. Who taught him how to prepare for a tackle?
I think Blackadder assessed the situation really well in this instance. He had seen that the welsh guys head was in avulnerable position and that he could no longer tackle front on so had to try and shift his position to try and tackle side on
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@mikethesnow Mate for a rugby man, the result while important is never the end all!!
I have been to plenty of matches where team I follow gets beat, but have loved being there. It's rugby, and I always used to belive it was something best understood by people from NZ, SA and Wales!!
Know the meaning of rugby! -
@stodders said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
Did anyone read the player ratings today in the Sunday Times by Mr S Jones. Barrett was lucky to get a 6/10 and is almost as overrated as SBW. He does make me chuckle, especially when he's salty 🤣. He did v much enjoy the English win over NZ today. Is he really Welsh still?
Haven't read what Jones wrote, but I too am not as excited about BB's performance as most seem to be. It was typical BB in that he showed he is a very very good rugby player but an average International 10 in other aspects.
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I only got up for this because a cat being sick woke me from my slumber. Happy it did thought in a perverse way because there was a lot to like about this game. There'd be more to like if the roof was closed, but those decisions are beyond the protagonists.
All Blacks clearly worked on the forwards operating more as a menacing black blanket around the breakdown, perhaps learning the lesson of the loss to the Springboks; win your own ball and quickly, overwhelm in close and draw in defenders. Whatever, the approach for this game worked and well.
Players with questions over them coming into this match for me:
- Could TJP be calmer than his effort off the bench against the USA?
- Could Havili improve his timing and impose himself?
- Loose forwards.
TJP is clearly a talented rugby player. The points around his play have been made by numerous others in numerous threads. Marshall like, but more talented, as an extra loose forward in defence. Vastly more enterprising and skilful in attack. HIs service was an improvement of the helter-skelter play against the USA, but still short of the gold standard (Aaron Smith). I feel his best attributes in the twilight of his career remain his defence and support play. He just needs to rely on his experience and be the calm voice at rucks.
Havili. Looks short of confidence. Timing is off and errors creeping into his game. This was a match that should have made him look comfortable - the platform up front provided time and space. His defence wasn't great and he didn't figure in attacking highlights. Time to give more time to Tupea, starting against Italy.
loose forwards. You can teach skills. Players can become more accurate but you can't teach work ethic. Blackadder and Papali'i have that in spades. big engines and a willingness to be involved in the actions that make a difference, not necessarily the highlight reel. Hard to tell if it was the game plan, the opposition, the greater effectiveness of the tight five, or the actions of the loose forwards themselves, but each impressed. Is it the best balance? Probably not, but performances like that raise the bar.
Nothing summed up this test for me more than Beaudy doing Beau8dy things in the first and last minute of his 100th Test.
But Wales were missing too many for the big question to be answered, have we learnt the harsh lesson from the Boks? For that we wait two, maybe three weeks more.
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@voodoo said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
I assume TJP rushing up alone was a planned tactic given he did it 3 or 4 times. What are people's thoughts on using it more more broadly against different opposition?
His sweeping was deliberate and always looking at the 2nd and 3rd channel to see where Wales - who refused to go away from the game plan in their heads - would put it. And once the rhythm of that plan was established, it was mostly easy to pick out who would receive the ball by the time TJP had covered that 5-10 meters. Coming from depth allowed him to also force that upon Wales a few times.
Wales aren't very well coached. They just did the same shit all game and expected different results. A few short kicks - or any sort of decent tactical kicking - and they could have caused problems.
That Basham kid is fucking good tho.
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@crazy-horse said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@stodders said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
Did anyone read the player ratings today in the Sunday Times by Mr S Jones. Barrett was lucky to get a 6/10 and is almost as overrated as SBW. He does make me chuckle, especially when he's salty 🤣. He did v much enjoy the English win over NZ today. Is he really Welsh still?
Haven't read what Jones wrote, but I too am not as excited about BB's performance as most seem to be. It was typical BB in that he showed he is a very very good rugby player but an average International 10 in other aspects.
At the moment we have 2 flawed 10s, so the challenge for the coaches is how to best use their strengths. Right now they appear to prefer Beauden starting with Mo'unga on the bench, and I agree with that approach.
Beauden handles the physical stuff better, is a solid defender, and is not afraid to run straight and hard when required. He's also worth 1 - 3 tries per game at any stage pretty much out of nowhere. He's a nightmare to defend as you can't take your eye off him for a second or he'll burn you. However, he won't take control of a tight test and drive the team around the park as you'd expect a traditional 10 to do.
Mo'unga looks a million bucks when his forward pack is bitch slapping the opposition all over the park (Saders), is lethal in open play and comes into his own towards the end of the game when defenses are tiring. He also has a better kicking game from hand. However, he doesn't handle the physical teams well at all, and has gone missing against the English and the Boks when they've had our pack on the back foot, so is also unable to take control of a tight test. He's also a poor defender so doesn't often defend in the line as other teams will target him.
Given their attributes, I can understand the preference for Beauden starting, though it can be horses for courses a bit depending on the opposition.
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@no-quarter good summary
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@voodoo said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
I assume TJP rushing up alone was a planned tactic given he did it 3 or 4 times. What are people's thoughts on using it more more broadly against different opposition?
South Africa have had Faf de Klerk doing that for the last few years and it seems to have worked out well for them
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@dan54 said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@mikethesnow Mate for a rugby man, the result while important is never the end all!!
I have been to plenty of matches where team I follow gets beat, but have loved being there. It's rugby, and I always used to belive it was something best understood by people from NZ, SA and Wales!!
Know the meaning of rugby!You obviously did not read my post-match round up
Well done
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@nevorian said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@broughie said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@mikethesnow I’m not sure that blackadders hit sent him lower but it was no arms so there was a case for yellow card. Your guy needed YC for being a dumb fluffy bunny and ducking his head. He created a situation where injury was probable. Who taught him how to prepare for a tackle?
I think Blackadder assessed the situation really well in this instance. He had seen that the welsh guys head was in avulnerable position and that he could no longer tackle front on so had to try and shift his position to try and tackle side on
That is a very romantic version of events
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@nta said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@voodoo said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
I assume TJP rushing up alone was a planned tactic given he did it 3 or 4 times. What are people's thoughts on using it more more broadly against different opposition?
His sweeping was deliberate and always looking at the 2nd and 3rd channel to see where Wales - who refused to go away from the game plan in their heads - would put it. And once the rhythm of that plan was established, it was mostly easy to pick out who would receive the ball by the time TJP had covered that 5-10 meters. Coming from depth allowed him to also force that upon Wales a few times.
Wales aren't very well coached. They just did the same shit all game and expected different results. A few short kicks - or any sort of decent tactical kicking - and they could have caused problems.
That Basham kid is fucking good tho.
Bang on
The NZ defensive line was straight and fast all evening.
We kicked through once, and scored.
And then didn’t do it again.
Rote rugby has been the blessing and the curse for Wales under all our NZ coaches.
A mate taught Basham and was his rugby coach between 13-16
Said he was going to make it even then.
We obviously thought he was talking shit.
Needs to tighten up his tackling technique (calm down) because he should have seen yellow.
But aside from that he’s got it all.
Great first start for Wales.
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@stodders said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
Did anyone read the player ratings today in the Sunday Times by Mr S Jones. Barrett was lucky to get a 6/10 and is almost as overrated as SBW. He does make me chuckle, especially when he's salty 🤣. He did v much enjoy the English win over NZ today. Is he really Welsh still?
He has a point. Aside from 2 intercept tries I was rather underwhelmed by Barrett. Maybe I need to watch the match again.
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@booboo said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@catogrande said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@rotated said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
The key to the Barrett knock down to me is the pass itself. It's a loopy infield effort and you can see on the replay Barrett reads it out of the hand and then attacks for the intercept. IMO that pass is loopy enough to be reasonably taken one handed.
He remains comfortably on his feet during the attempt and if taken it was a try. The final try has many similarities to that effort, if he shelled that a penalty or yellow card would have been a joke.
Knock on would be my preference. I understand why it is a penalty in this day and age but I'm struggling to see the cynicism in that play. His read of it out of the hand is evidence to the opposite.
I just have a tough time seeing a yellow card for an attempted intercept above shoulder height in almost any circumstances.
Fuck me mate but you’ve raised a few red herrings there.
The fact that the pass is infield or loopy is completely irrelevant. Barrett stays on his feet - so what?
If he takes the catch (which by the way he was nowhere near doing), he scores is again irrelevant.
I agree no cynicism in the action, but again that is not relevant.
Re you last line there Cato, I'd have thought that was the most relevant?
I would kind of like it to be but then the sanction comes down to intent rather than outcome, which is much more open to interpretation.
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@crazy-horse said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
@stodders said in Wales v All Blacks 30th Oct NH Tour:
Did anyone read the player ratings today in the Sunday Times by Mr S Jones. Barrett was lucky to get a 6/10 and is almost as overrated as SBW. He does make me chuckle, especially when he's salty 🤣. He did v much enjoy the English win over NZ today. Is he really Welsh still?
Haven't read what Jones wrote, but I too am not as excited about BB's performance as most seem to be. It was typical BB in that he showed he is a very very good rugby player but an average International 10 in other aspects.
I'd love to read them. I'm surprised he managed to even write them given the time he must have spent writing up about the poor refereeing display ...
To be fair to Jones, he has been pushing Woman's rugby very hard over the last few years. You should have seen the saltiness after we won the 2017 final against the much highly fancied English team ...
Anyway, i've noted that after close to 6 months of build up to the Wales match talking about how depleted they were going to be, I note not one single bit of context has been applied to the woman's result. Standard, I suppose.
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