SA vs refs
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Referees are growing increasingly reluctant to take charge of test matches involving South Africa, having seen their families threatened after Rassie Erasmus’s targeted criticism of them.
Erasmus, 50, the South Africa director of rugby, was suspended by World Rugby for the second time in a year for publishing a series of clips on social media highlighting tight refereeing calls in Springbok games.
He was banned from having any involvement in two matches, the test against Italy last weekend and the final match of their tour, against England on Sunday (NZT). He is unable to attend Twickenham, or comment on social media for the rest of this week.
Rassie Erasmus overstepped his mark as a water carrier in last year';s test between the Springboks and British & Irish Lions.
DAVID ROGERS/GETTY IMAGES
Rassie Erasmus overstepped his mark as a water carrier in last year';s test between the Springboks and British & Irish Lions.
Erasmus had only returned to the South African coaching box in September having served a 12-month suspension for his infamous 62-minute video that dissected refereeing decisions during the 2021 British & Irish Lions series.
READ MORE:
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Rassie Erasmus found guilty of misconduct, handed suspension by World Rugby
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England coach Eddie Jones says Rassie Erasmus' referees rant was 'disrespectful'
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Support for Rassie Erasmus against World Rugby's 'monster'
The Times understands that a number of referees are now uneasy about officiating tests that involve the world champions, concerned that they and their families will become targets for vitriolic abuse if South Africa lose.
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Both Nic Berry, the Australian who took charge of the first Lions test last year, and the Englishman Wayne Barnes, the referee Erasmus targeted after the loss to France this month, have received death threats on the back of his criticism.
It is understood their families and children have also been targeted online, via Instagram and Twitter, and threatened with violence.
English referee Wayne Barnes received death threats after he controlled South Africa's recent test against France in Marseille.
GALLO IMAGES/GETTY IMAGES
English referee Wayne Barnes received death threats after he controlled South Africa's recent test against France in Marseille.
Erasmus’s tactics are not a recent ploy. It is also believed that in 2018, when South Africa lost 32-19 to Argentina in the Rugby Championship, he sent an extraordinarily angry email to Angus Gardner, the Australian referee who has been slated to officiate Saturday’s match against England at Twickenham.
The South African Rugby Union (SARU) is yet to comment publicly on Erasmus’s ban, which was handed out last Thursday, and the man himself does not believe his actions warranted another ban.
The RFU wrote a strongly worded letter to the SARU condemning Erasmus’s behaviour, having seen the abuse Barnes and his family suffered.
The criticism Barnes received included a post from the wife of the Springbok wing Cheslin Kolbe, who suggested France had paid him a bribe. Layla Kolbe later deleted the post on Instagram.
It is a seriously worrying development for World Rugby, and the sport itself, which is now in a situation where views are entrenched on both sides and referees may not want to officiate South Africa games with less than a year to go until the team defend the World Cup in France.
Munster take another international scalp, stun South Africa
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One of rugby's most famous clubs has added another historic win to its books with a comprehensive 28-14 win over a South Africa A side in Cork.
Alan Gilpin, World Rugby chief executive, said that the governing body had to act quickly to ban Erasmus. His previous suspension took four months to deliver, but the regulations have been beefed up since so that those who step out of line can be sanctioned more rapidly.
“We know Rassie doesn’t agree with the sanction, but it’s pretty important from a World Rugby perspective to say that respect for match officials is an absolute fundamental given in the game,” Gilpin said.
“Everyone, including Rassie and South African Rugby, were frustrated with the length of the process last time. We certainly were. One of the things we looked at on the back of that were the protocols we have around communication pre and post-match between the coaching setup and match officials.
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“That’s a confidential process we re-enforced the importance of. One part of it was saying we have to have some teeth, and sanctions, so if someone breaches the respect that protocol needs, then there are sanctions. That’s what we’ve used this time to move more quickly.
“South African Rugby have accepted the position we’ve taken. They’ve got their own challenges with how they’ve got to approach that. Rassie is an employee of SA Rugby. I’m sure Rassie doesn’t necessarily agree with the decision, but we’ve got to move forward from that. Part of that is a dialogue about what’s working and what’s not.”
Rassie Erasmus is rarely short of an opinion, or a willingness to express it.
DAVID ROGERS/GETTY IMAGES
Rassie Erasmus is rarely short of an opinion, or a willingness to express it.
Gilpin has seen evidence of Erasmus’s behaviour affecting the community game.
“The clear message we were getting is that what happens at the top, international level of the game is what filters down to a Sunday morning,” he said.
“If that is going to translate into parents taking mobile camera footage of refereeing on a Sunday morning match at community level, and [to] criticise a referee online, we’ve got to be able to deal with that.
“We’re seeing more of that. You certainly see it across other sports, so we want to make sure that respect for officials, which is so important in rugby, such a differentiator from other sports, and the value of the game is protected.
“The most important thing that comes out of it is we end up in a dialogue about why he’s unhappy, why he feels the protocols we have are not working, and if needed we’ve got to be big enough to look whether they need changing further. Of course, they all need evolving all the time.”
COPYRIGHT - THE TIMES, LONDON
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@taniwharugby said in SA vs refs:
Referees are growing increasingly reluctant to take charge of test matches involving South Africa, having seen their families threatened after Rassie Erasmus’s targeted criticism of them.
Erasmus, 50, the South Africa director of rugby, was suspended by World Rugby for the second time in a year for publishing a series of clips on social media highlighting tight refereeing calls in Springbok games.
He was banned from having any involvement in two matches, the test against Italy last weekend and the final match of their tour, against England on Sunday (NZT). He is unable to attend Twickenham, or comment on social media for the rest of this week.
Rassie Erasmus overstepped his mark as a water carrier in last year';s test between the Springboks and British & Irish Lions.
DAVID ROGERS/GETTY IMAGES
Rassie Erasmus overstepped his mark as a water carrier in last year';s test between the Springboks and British & Irish Lions.
Erasmus had only returned to the South African coaching box in September having served a 12-month suspension for his infamous 62-minute video that dissected refereeing decisions during the 2021 British & Irish Lions series.
READ MORE:
-
Rassie Erasmus found guilty of misconduct, handed suspension by World Rugby
-
England coach Eddie Jones says Rassie Erasmus' referees rant was 'disrespectful'
-
Support for Rassie Erasmus against World Rugby's 'monster'
The Times understands that a number of referees are now uneasy about officiating tests that involve the world champions, concerned that they and their families will become targets for vitriolic abuse if South Africa lose.
ADVERTISEMENT
Advertise with Stuff
Both Nic Berry, the Australian who took charge of the first Lions test last year, and the Englishman Wayne Barnes, the referee Erasmus targeted after the loss to France this month, have received death threats on the back of his criticism.
It is understood their families and children have also been targeted online, via Instagram and Twitter, and threatened with violence.
English referee Wayne Barnes received death threats after he controlled South Africa's recent test against France in Marseille.
GALLO IMAGES/GETTY IMAGES
English referee Wayne Barnes received death threats after he controlled South Africa's recent test against France in Marseille.
Erasmus’s tactics are not a recent ploy. It is also believed that in 2018, when South Africa lost 32-19 to Argentina in the Rugby Championship, he sent an extraordinarily angry email to Angus Gardner, the Australian referee who has been slated to officiate Saturday’s match against England at Twickenham.
The South African Rugby Union (SARU) is yet to comment publicly on Erasmus’s ban, which was handed out last Thursday, and the man himself does not believe his actions warranted another ban.
The RFU wrote a strongly worded letter to the SARU condemning Erasmus’s behaviour, having seen the abuse Barnes and his family suffered.
The criticism Barnes received included a post from the wife of the Springbok wing Cheslin Kolbe, who suggested France had paid him a bribe. Layla Kolbe later deleted the post on Instagram.
It is a seriously worrying development for World Rugby, and the sport itself, which is now in a situation where views are entrenched on both sides and referees may not want to officiate South Africa games with less than a year to go until the team defend the World Cup in France.
Munster take another international scalp, stun South Africa
Play Video
OTHER
One of rugby's most famous clubs has added another historic win to its books with a comprehensive 28-14 win over a South Africa A side in Cork.
Alan Gilpin, World Rugby chief executive, said that the governing body had to act quickly to ban Erasmus. His previous suspension took four months to deliver, but the regulations have been beefed up since so that those who step out of line can be sanctioned more rapidly.
“We know Rassie doesn’t agree with the sanction, but it’s pretty important from a World Rugby perspective to say that respect for match officials is an absolute fundamental given in the game,” Gilpin said.
“Everyone, including Rassie and South African Rugby, were frustrated with the length of the process last time. We certainly were. One of the things we looked at on the back of that were the protocols we have around communication pre and post-match between the coaching setup and match officials.
ADVERTISEMENT
Advertise with Stuff
“That’s a confidential process we re-enforced the importance of. One part of it was saying we have to have some teeth, and sanctions, so if someone breaches the respect that protocol needs, then there are sanctions. That’s what we’ve used this time to move more quickly.
“South African Rugby have accepted the position we’ve taken. They’ve got their own challenges with how they’ve got to approach that. Rassie is an employee of SA Rugby. I’m sure Rassie doesn’t necessarily agree with the decision, but we’ve got to move forward from that. Part of that is a dialogue about what’s working and what’s not.”
Rassie Erasmus is rarely short of an opinion, or a willingness to express it.
DAVID ROGERS/GETTY IMAGES
Rassie Erasmus is rarely short of an opinion, or a willingness to express it.
Gilpin has seen evidence of Erasmus’s behaviour affecting the community game.
“The clear message we were getting is that what happens at the top, international level of the game is what filters down to a Sunday morning,” he said.
“If that is going to translate into parents taking mobile camera footage of refereeing on a Sunday morning match at community level, and [to] criticise a referee online, we’ve got to be able to deal with that.
“We’re seeing more of that. You certainly see it across other sports, so we want to make sure that respect for officials, which is so important in rugby, such a differentiator from other sports, and the value of the game is protected.
“The most important thing that comes out of it is we end up in a dialogue about why he’s unhappy, why he feels the protocols we have are not working, and if needed we’ve got to be big enough to look whether they need changing further. Of course, they all need evolving all the time.”
COPYRIGHT - THE TIMES, LONDON
Gutless from SARU.
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Interesting read isn't it, I wish ref whingers (or most whingers in sport) would realise how much it effects grassroots. As it says it will probably translate into parents taking phones to games and posting online, I seem to recall already seeing something similar in a junior soccer game in Aus when I was there.
I really dislike strongly ref abusers at games etc!!
And Saffa's aren't alone in this shit, read rugby boards etc. -
@Dan54 i saw americans fans calling their own team a disgrace for losing to portugal.....a team higher than them in the world rankings....fans are the worst
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@Kiwiwomble said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 i saw americans fans calling their own team a disgrace for losing to portugal.....a team higher than them in the world rankings....fans are the worst
True kiwi, and probably why they called fans and not supporters. Fans get on bandwagon, supporters stick!!
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@Kiwiwomble said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 i saw americans fans calling their own team a disgrace for losing to portugal.....a team higher than them in the world rankings....fans are the worst
Well, Portugal didn't help America during their revolution! Where were they on April 19, 1775?! Oh so recent..
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@Dan54 ever lived in the UK Dan? You are absolutely made to be a rugby fan over here.
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I hope authorities are following up in cases where death threats have been made.
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@Dan54 Saffers copy the Kiwis when it come to Barnes.
Rugby World Cup: Kiwi fans go online to vent their spleen at referee Barnes
Rugby World Cup: New Zealand fans are blaming Steve Barnes for their elimination on an abusive web page.
I personally rate Rassie as a coach, he achieved a lot with the Springboks but I will never agree with ref bashing in any way.
Thats more an Aussie thing. They dont watch rugby, they watch the ref.
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@Bones said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 ever lived in the UK Dan? You are absolutely made to be a rugby fan over here.
Yeah. The England supporters are just as good as everywhere else. It's the "fans" and "Twickers is a social event old chap" who give the game a bad rep.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in SA vs refs:
@Bones said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 ever lived in the UK Dan? You are absolutely made to be a rugby fan over here.
Yeah. The England supporters are just as good as everywhere else. It's the "fans" and "Twickers is a social event old chap" who give the game a bad rep.
Oh my Facebook is full of holier than thou rugby clubbers.
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@Bones said in SA vs refs:
@Victor-Meldrew said in SA vs refs:
@Bones said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 ever lived in the UK Dan? You are absolutely made to be a rugby fan over here.
Yeah. The England supporters are just as good as everywhere else. It's the "fans" and "Twickers is a social event old chap" who give the game a bad rep.
Oh my Facebook is full of holier than thou rugby clubbers.
You need to be bit more discerning who you allow as friends...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in SA vs refs:
@Bones said in SA vs refs:
@Victor-Meldrew said in SA vs refs:
@Bones said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 ever lived in the UK Dan? You are absolutely made to be a rugby fan over here.
Yeah. The England supporters are just as good as everywhere else. It's the "fans" and "Twickers is a social event old chap" who give the game a bad rep.
Oh my Facebook is full of holier than thou rugby clubbers.
You need to be bit more discerning who you allow as friends...
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@Bones said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 ever lived in the UK Dan? You are absolutely made to be a rugby fan over here.
No mate, never lived there. Lived in Aus for a fair while, but for first 40 odd years grew up learnt all my rugby and had all my beliefs on game instilled in me in NZ.
What you mean by rugby fans in England anyway? -
@OomPB said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 Saffers copy the Kiwis when it come to Barnes.
Rugby World Cup: New Zealand fans are blaming Steve Barnes for their elimination on an abusive web page.
I personally rate Rassie as a coach, he achieved a lot with the Springboks but I will never agree with ref bashing in any way.
Thats more an Aussie thing. They dont watch rugby, they watch the ref.
Amen Oom, I was alawys amused in Aussie the number of games I went to especially at club level, the people would say , "oh you wull win this ref hates us", and it wasn't unusual for both clubs to say it in same match (including one I coached), it used to infuriate me how much time many spent watching so called refs cock ups, and not notice the players ones!
And I used to go to Suncorp a hell of a lot, and was amazed how many people in stands could see which prop (200ms away) was causing problems in scrum, how when play was down other end of field they could calculate who was off side etc, just spent whole game seemingly screaming at ref. -
@Dan54 said in SA vs refs:
@Bones said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 ever lived in the UK Dan? You are absolutely made to be a rugby fan over here.
No mate, never lived there. Lived in Aus for a fair while, but for first 40 odd years grew up learnt all my rugby and had all my beliefs on game instilled in me in NZ.
What you mean by rugby fans in England anyway?I think he means that the English fan in general is very supportive of their club and their team. Booing and getting on the backs of your own team is not considered reasonable behaviour from true supporters
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@canefan said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 said in SA vs refs:
@Bones said in SA vs refs:
@Dan54 ever lived in the UK Dan? You are absolutely made to be a rugby fan over here.
No mate, never lived there. Lived in Aus for a fair while, but for first 40 odd years grew up learnt all my rugby and had all my beliefs on game instilled in me in NZ.
What you mean by rugby fans in England anyway?I think he means that the English fan in general is very supportive of their club and their team. Booing and getting on the backs of your own team is not considered reasonable behaviour from true supporters
Whilst I find this to be true, we also tend to get a lot of bandwagon jumpers when things are going well. These are usually loud, obnoxious, jingoistic and know fuck all about the game. See also cricket.
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@Catogrande they also have long legged equines.
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I know this is is really quite petty ..... but ...
What really gets my goat, as an NZer, is that on places like reddit or other social media; comments on subjects like this one, will by about the 3rd comment, pipe in with the received wisdom that Barnes got death threats by NZ fans after the 2007 QF. And it never gets challenged, it is now the 'new truth' it seems. It is, in fact, a misappropriation of the South Africa V Australia 2011 QF and Bryce Lawrence getting a death threat and then retiring.
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@Rapido said in SA vs refs:
I know this is is really quite petty ..... but ...
What really gets my goat, as an NZer, is that on places like reddit or other social media; comments on subjects like this one, will by about the 3rd comment, pipe in with the received wisdom that Barnes got death threats by NZ fans after the 2007 QF. And it never gets challenged, it is now the 'new truth' it seems. It is, in fact, a misappropriation of the South Africa V Australia 2011 QF and Bryce Lawrence getting a death threat and then retiring.
Furthermore GH refused to publicly blame Barnes for our defeat
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@canefan said in SA vs refs:
@Rapido said in SA vs refs:
I know this is is really quite petty ..... but ...
What really gets my goat, as an NZer, is that on places like reddit or other social media; comments on subjects like this one, will by about the 3rd comment, pipe in with the received wisdom that Barnes got death threats by NZ fans after the 2007 QF. And it never gets challenged, it is now the 'new truth' it seems. It is, in fact, a misappropriation of the South Africa V Australia 2011 QF and Bryce Lawrence getting a death threat and then retiring.
Furthermore GH refused to publicly blame Barnes for our defeat
Well, he did eventually. 5 years later when he retired and had a book to sell.
Shedloads better than making his own youtube videos during test weeks, I grant, but eventually he/we lost our lilly-white place on that high horse.
But, a book with no chapter on that game would have been 'interesting' .... so, whadayado?
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@Rapido said in SA vs refs:
@canefan said in SA vs refs:
@Rapido said in SA vs refs:
I know this is is really quite petty ..... but ...
What really gets my goat, as an NZer, is that on places like reddit or other social media; comments on subjects like this one, will by about the 3rd comment, pipe in with the received wisdom that Barnes got death threats by NZ fans after the 2007 QF. And it never gets challenged, it is now the 'new truth' it seems. It is, in fact, a misappropriation of the South Africa V Australia 2011 QF and Bryce Lawrence getting a death threat and then retiring.
Furthermore GH refused to publicly blame Barnes for our defeat
Well, he did eventually. 5 years later when he retired and had a book to sell.
Shedloads better than making his own youtube videos during test weeks, I grant, but eventually he/we lost our lilly-white place on that high horse.
But, a book with no chapter on that game would have been 'interesting' .... so, whadayado?
Calling Barnes out on clear and obvious blame for our loss 5 years later? No problem with that personally. What Rassie is doing, whipping the fans up against the refs post match is poor form
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Yeah, I agree TBH.
I'm sounding a bit sanctimonious there. Henry handled himself 40000% better than I did.
Writing a book after he retires is a perfectly normal action.
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@Rapido said in SA vs refs:
Yeah, I agree TBH.
I'm sounding a bit sanctimonious there. Henry handled himself 40000% better than I did.
Writing a book after he retires is a perfectly normal action.
Hell I've retired, am I meant to write a book??
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We all wonder from time to time how the performance of referee's is reviewed.
This is from the article below:
“Within certain sections of the fan community, there’s a lack of understanding of the depth of performance review we go through.
“We are Test match performers and just like a world-class team the reviews and learning are deep and detailed. Post-match most of the referees will get the live notes straight away – either directly from Joel or from the match assessor.
“You will get some feedback from your coach who is actually watching it very carefully from the screen and an overall comment on what was the topline feeling and maybe some notes on the big decisions and their outcomes.”He's right that there isn't a sufficient understanding of the performance review of test referees, but I think that World Rugby, SANZAAR and all other organisations responsible for organising international tours, tournaments and competitions could themselves improve that understanding by more openess about both that review process and the results of that process. That doesn't have to, and shouldn't, happen by throwing a referee under the bus like they've done in the past with a referee like Angus Gardner, but more openess could - hopefully - prevent the likes of Rassie Erasmus from venting his own inflammatory "reviews" on social media. It won't stop all the morons who threatened Wayne Barnes and his family from doing the same to the next ref that officiates a game of their team (especially when that team loses), but it may help a bit.
Another Test referee speaks out on 'certain sections of the fan community'
Referee Nika Amashukeli has become the latest Test official to speak out following what he describes as disgraceful abuse directed at Wayne Barnes and his family during the Autumn Nations.
