Defending your home
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<p>you mug someone for that?</p>
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<p>Bringing this one back, as this case has finally come before the courts.</p>
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<p>Turned out that the homeowner chased the burglar 400m from his house, before choking him to death while beating him up:</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theherald.com.au/story/3892699/hamilton-burglar-choked-to-death/ '>http://www.theherald.com.au/story/3892699/hamilton-burglar-choked-to-death/ </a></p>
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<p><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">BENJAMIN Batterham chased burglar Ricky Slater-Dickson for more than 400 metres before tackling him to the ground and putting him in a “choker hold’’ where he punched him repeatedly every time he resisted, a court has heard.</span><br>
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<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">A bail hearing for the murder accused on Friday also heard allegations that Mr Batterham remained “extremely’’ aggressive “before, during and after†the altercation and had later told authorities “give me two minutes with him’’.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> </p>
<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">Mr Batterham, 33, is accused of murdering Mr Slater-Dickson on March 26 after he found the alleged victim stealing a handbag from inside his family’s Hamilton home about 3.20am while Mr Batterham was drinking with a friend.</p>
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<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">He is alleged to have chased Mr Slater-Dickson for “more than four football fields†before tackling him to the ground, punching him repeatedly in the head while having his arm around the burglar’s throat.</p>
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<p>Puts the original 'free Benjamin Batterham' stuff in a different light IMO, I reckon a murder charge is fairly appropriate.</p> -
<p>as much as the scum bag probably deserved to be roughed up, that is beyond defending your home.</p>
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<p>Chasing someone for 400m is a pretty concerted effort...</p> -
<p>Still doesn't sit right.</p>
<p>Is the world a better place for no longer having Ricky Slater-Dickhead? - "probably".</p>
<p>Is the world a worse place for having Benjamin Batteredthefuckouttahim behind bars? - also "probably".</p>
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<p>Life's not fair I suppose.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rembrandt" data-cid="578760" data-time="1462941311"><p>
Still doesn't sit right.<br>
Is the world a better place for no longer having Ricky Slater-Dickhead? - "probably".<br>
Is the world a worse place for having Benjamin Batteredthefuckouttahim behind bars? - also "probably".<br><br>
Life's not fair I suppose.</p></blockquote>
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Not so sure I agree with the second point. Is the world better for having a bloke who chases (an admittedly bad bugger) 400m to be able to beat him and subsequently kill him behind bars? Yes I believe it is.<br><br>
Definitely agree with the first point. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="578762" data-time="1462941753">
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<p>Not so sure I agree with the second point. Is the world better for having a bloke who chases (an admittedly bad bugger) 400m to be able to beat him and subsequently kill him behind bars? Yes I believe it is.<br><br>
Definitely agree with the first point.</p>
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<p>Interesting to see some light shed on the situation. I imagine it would take a reasonable amount of effort to choke someone to death. It's certainly not in the same category as killing them with a single punch.</p>
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<p>I tend to agree with all three of Rembrandt's points, even though I know that as a (somewhat) decent human being I probably shouldn't agree with the second. The burglar was a meth addict who had only recently been released from prison. Given that in prison, theoretically guys are meant to be rehabilitated, or at least deterred from committing further crime,for him to come out and get almost straight back on the horse suggests to me that this guy would keep on offending and was probably beyond rehabilitation for at least the medium term. </p>
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<p>For me, it's all about choices. The burglar chose to go into the house, after dark, with the intention of stealing from someone he didn't know just as Batterham chose to chase the guy down over a substantial distance and then give him an absolute towelling which led to his death. Both were poor choices, both had massive consequences. </p>
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<p>I would suspect that legally Batterham won't have a leg to stand on and he will do a decent lag in prison. He'll have a very hard time arguing self defence if the alleged circumstances are true, and I'd imagine his lawyer will be looking to get a plea bargain to manslaughter as his best possible option. </p> -
<p>Although I did just read this in the same article which makes it even more interesting...</p>
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<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">As eyewitnesses, including an off-duty police officer, repeatedly told Mr Batterham to stop, he allegedly continued to grip Mr Slater-Dickson around the throat with his face on the ground. </span><br><br><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">But in applying for bail, defence barrister Winston Terracini SC said Mr Slater-Dickson had a range of medical issues, was addicted to the drug ice, had committed the “home invasion’’ and was armed with multiple knives.</span></blockquote> -
yeah beating someone to death isn't great..I guess I'm assuming he was otherwise a law abiding citizen with a family to support who just lost the plot when some feral invaded his home. Is there an argument for a temporary insanity type defence? Imagine being massively boozed up already and then being woken by some meth fiend in your house, any reasonable control could go right out the window
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<p>Oh well, if you're pissed up that's different. :whistle:</p>
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<p>Part of it too is people have zero idea how easy it is to kill someone, you see a guy one TV beaten for half an hour with a club & thrown through a window then run away, when you finally get in a fight you assume putting a bar stool through the back of someone's head will just knock them out.</p>
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<p>Ditto choke holds. You do those right they will knock someone out. You do them for 20 seconds longer they are a veggie & 10 seconds after that dead.</p>
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<p>Ideally you want to go at the bad guys knees with a bat, wedge, tyre iron, anything really. Really go to town. Very hard to kill anyone with a crowbar to the knee even on your 10th swing. And they are not remotely a threat after about swing 1. It should be taught in schools</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="578867" data-time="1462983432">
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<p>Part of it too is people have zero idea how easy it is to kill someone, you see a guy one TV beaten for half an hour with a club & thrown through a window then run away, when you finally get in a fight you assume putting a bar stool through the back of someone's head will just knock them out.</p>
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<p>Ditto choke holds. You do those right they will knock someone out. You do them for 20 seconds longer they are a veggie & 10 seconds after that dead.</p>
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<p>Ideally you want to go at the bad guys knees with a bat, wedge, tyre iron, anything really. Really go to town. Very hard to kill anyone with a crowbar to the knee even on your 10th swing. And they are not remotely a threat after about swing 1. It should be taught in schools</p>
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<p>In Banshee you can get beaten, electrocuted, stabbed and shot ( preferably not all on the same day ) but it's nothing a stiff drink and a good night rooting/sleeping won't fix.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rembrandt" data-cid="578848" data-time="1462966307">
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<p>yeah beating someone to death isn't great..I guess I'm assuming he was otherwise a law abiding citizen with a family to support who just lost the plot when some feral invaded his home. Is there an argument for a temporary insanity type defence? Imagine being massively boozed up already and then being woken by some meth fiend in your house, any reasonable control could go right out the window</p>
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<p>If I read that article right, Batterham played hockey for Australia.</p> -
<p>Contrast this story with those drunk louts foiling that Oporto robbery a couple months back</p>
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<p>Drunk louts = true blue aussie heroes, world wide fame!</p>
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<p>Is the difference here just general fitness? Aussie hero had too many pies so couldn't catch up and hold the oporto thief.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rembrandt" data-cid="578959" data-time="1463015721">
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<p>Contrast this story with those drunk louts foiling that Oporto robbery a couple months back</p>
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<p>Drunk louts = true blue aussie heroes, world wide fame!</p>
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<p>Is the difference here just general fitness? Aussie hero had too many pies so couldn't catch up and hold the oporto thief.</p>
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<p>Jesus that's a long bow. </p>
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<p>No-one is objecting to Batterham chasing down the thief, it's just what he did once he caught him that drastically crossed the line.</p>
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<p>Are you suggesting these two blokes would have murdered the thief if they caught him??</p> -
<p>Anyone else seen this weird case? <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://abcnews4.com/news/crime-news/judge-finds-probable-cause-loftis-will-stand-trial'>http://abcnews4.com/news/crime-news/judge-finds-probable-cause-loftis-will-stand-trial</a></p>
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<p>Don't think you're going to make a great case when you bury them. Manslaughter in self defence kind of implies you'd ring the cops straight away and tell them what happened.</p>
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<p>But its a stressful situation so any weird shit could happen.</p> -
Well certainly not intentionally. The big guy ran after him and was pretty pissed up, who is to say what might have happened had he caught him? He clearly felt he had to intervene even without a personal affiliation to the business being robbed, probably at least thought about holding him until the police arrived.