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@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@jegga said in NZ Politics:
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@jegga said in NZ Politics:
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
Not a mention at all about the behaviour of buyers knowingly buying at inflated prices and feeding the beast? What happened to the theories of individual responsibility?
Yes, there was an obvious supply and demand problem driving the issue but you also have to look at the demand factor as well as supply and ask 'why have we created/allowed a situation where everyone is trying to cram into the same phonebox?'
This is where the 'hands off' approach and reliance on the market will cause ups and downs that affect lives. IMO, good governance would act to try and moderate those swings. Regional development incentives, infrastructure planning and investment that returns more bang for buck, immigration measures etc etc. Act to spread the load and drive overall prosperity rather than false growth through speculation.
Thats a new one. You either pay the asking price or miss out, its not like people actually want to pay more for a house than they absolutely have to . Its drawing a very long bow blaming the buyers.
**Did everyone 'absolutely have too'? You can certainly point to speculators helping feed the fire.
**
Also it's a simple risk assessment. Have people not learned that when property prices boom you need to look at whether it is a good place to sink your money. If you are looking very long term, then fine you probably won't have a problem as eventually the value will come back after a crash.
However, if you think you need a bigger house/another bedroom and bathroom every time a kid comes along then you will have to wear the shit that comes with that.I do get that some people get trapped by what is going on and feel they have no option but that is why I mentioned the incentives to help alleviate that (for some).People have to live where the jobs are so try to shift the jobs and they will follow.
It's not a magic wand but added up, these things can take the sting away.
Yeah you pay the price or miss out, I don't think I said "everyone" had to.
Can you point to a city the size of Auckland or similar overseas where government intervention and incentives have made property prices more affordable? The same problems we are having seem to be happening in most major cities in the west and if it was as simple as what you suggested to make living there more affordable I'd be keen to read about it.
True. Housing affordability issues go hand in hand with urbanisation. Cities that have tried to legislate within the city have either failed or created new problems.
That's not to say that in NZ we have to take that approach. We have only one govt (no state/federal system) so factors like immigration can be adjusted. We have room elsewhere as we have gathered our people/economy in one place. Things like transport, education and health are also governed centrally.I just think we looked at other countries and failed to do what kiwis are best at and that is to find a solution rather than just think 'no one else knows how to fix this, so I won't try'
It is also true that our political system hampered this desire to find a solution. The govt during the boom had support from people gaining overnight wealth on paper and feeling richer. Can't expect them to turn that tap off when you have to run short term govts.The problem wasn't so much the housing it was the urbanisation. I believe that if we take a longer term view to spreading the infrastructure load throughout the country and actively creating policies that arrest further urbanisation we can still balance that with real growth and reduce the risk of a boom/crash cycle.
We in in the cycle now though and you can't switch it off. You simply have to hope that the blow is cushioned.
Lowering property prices without triggering a crash is the holy grail of governments all over the west, none I know of have managed it and countries with cgt haven’t been able to stop property prices rising. We tried lvrs and they kept rising , National started building roads to open up other towns and labour and the Greens want to stop more being built.
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I had quite a bit of involvement with the Unitary Plan process. Was involved with a sneak preview even before the PAUP was released then chaired a series of public meetings and submitted to the Independent Panel. Probably spent 1,000 hours in total.
Yes regulations to restrict urban sprawl have to a certain extent raised land values, by creating an impression that there is a scarcity of land, but the reality is there are still massive swathes of greenfield development and the alternative in terms of infrastructure spend is prohibitively expensive.
Where the market is lagging is in terms of density. If you look at the overlay of the UP there are massive opportunities for densification. Much of the credit for this must go to the Independent Panel as the politicians had been scared off by the NIMBY's in the leafy suburbs and watered down what was required.
However the process of attitude adjustment is really slow. Much of Auckland can now build to 4 stories (which laughably is the end of civilisation for a lot of people) but it seems developers are fixated on town houses.
However there are encouraging signs of a paradigm shift. Density got a bad press because of the shit developments of 20 years ago, however Wynyard Quarter, Hobsonville Point and some inner city fringe stuff seems to be changing perceptions.
It is also very noticeable how densification is occurring around transport nodes. Look at what is happening in places like the streets around Mt Eden station for examples of the impact of the CRL. I expect this to continue as areas like New Lynn are suddenly made almost city fringe by quicker train access post 2022.
The move upwards is underway - it's just taken way too long to get rolling, but I expect momentum to accelerate. The other encouraging thing is many of these apartments are now being developed with limited car parking.
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I live in Hobsonville Point, and the high density development here has pushed prices up, not down.
So not sure that high density is the solution either, and in this area there is an abundance of supply too. But when I bought this house it came with an inch thick document of all the building requirements (a lot of which I’m glad for).
However, that sort of compliance overhead contributes massively to the cost of building and get passed on to the buyer.
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From my perspective I have absolutely no problem with high density living. In fact we live in an apartment in the city right now and love it. But the problem we have is with one child and another on the way it is very difficult to find an apartment big enough as the majority are studios or 1-2 bedrooms, so we're probably going to be forced out into a townhouse on the fringe next year.
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@crucial said in NZ Politics:
Not a mention at all about the behaviour of buyers knowingly buying at inflated prices and feeding the beast? What happened to the theories of individual responsibility?
Yes, there was an obvious supply and demand problem driving the issue but you also have to look at the demand factor as well as supply and ask 'why have we created/allowed a situation where everyone is trying to cram into the same phonebox?'
This is where the 'hands off' approach and reliance on the market will cause ups and downs that affect lives. IMO, good governance would act to try and moderate those swings. Regional development incentives, infrastructure planning and investment that returns more bang for buck, immigration measures etc etc. Act to spread the load and drive overall prosperity rather than false growth through speculation.
Whats hands off approach??? Central govt and local govt regulations caused all of this, amazes me some people think that more interference is the answer to to much interference.
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@no-quarter but thats the thing, getting people used to living in apartments or smaller places, lots of other places around the globe cope with worse, but is still alot that thnk the old 1/4 acre 4 bed home for 4 people is what they should aim for, but the reality is different.
Central Govt make plenty of the rules and regs around building compliance, but Local councils are the ones that have to enforce them and deal with blow back from people.
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Unsurprisingly businesses in New Zealand have no faith in the coalition.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12082299
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@kirwan For sure compliance adds a shit load of cost but (and I'm probably simply being thick having never built new) how has density pushed prices higher?
I lived in a 12 apartment complex in Holland, owned the ground floor of a four story Victorian in London and have a 1920's bungalow on a cross lease in Akl.
All came with their own advantages and disadvantages. For me its been proximity to things like bars, restaurants and public transport that I have liked rather than land. I would quite happily have rented rather than owned if I could have secured a long term arrangement like you can in Europe
If I move again before I die it will almost certainly be into a CBD apartment. Quite like the idea of Wynyard Quarter with a yacht at westhaven - either that or a Metlifecare gulag for the old and incontinent
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Will Little send the fat bastard packing?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105254436/kim-dotcom-loses-appeal-against-extradition
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@jegga said in NZ Politics:
Will Little send the fat bastard packing?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105254436/kim-dotcom-loses-appeal-against-extradition
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@jegga It's because they make knee-jerk, ill-advised and/or virtue-signalling decisions based on their screwed up ideology without much thought or forward planning. Davis and Twyford admit to not reading reports from officials. Businesses would dislike uncertainty, wouldn't they?
The chilling fact is that the left and it's supporters are blinded by their ideology, so they'll just jam their fingers in their ears and call anyone dissenting alt-right etc. They won't want to hear sense even if deep down they'd agree.
It reminds me of a Jack Nicholson line from a terrible movie when someone asks him (as an author) how he writes his female characters so well. He says, "I think of a man and then I take away any reason or accountability".
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@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@jegga no way will Little send him off.
Little will probably want to compensate him for his hurt feelings
He will now because jegga called him a fat bastard. Fat shaming shouldn't be a thing in countries that have free health care like NZ. Fine in the USA because it's user pays, but here the fat bastards are clogging up the health system and giving themselves diabetes. People are having to piss in containers under their beds because they can't get their knees or hips replaced for years.
I say go into his bank account and take enough to charter Con Air and send those fuckers over to the USA
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@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@louis we dont need to charter a plane, the US want to pay to get him there!
They’ll need to book two seats for the fat prick
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@jegga said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@louis we dont need to charter a plane, the US want to pay to get him there!
They’ll need to book two seats for the fat prick
Nah, in the hold
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@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@jegga said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@louis we dont need to charter a plane, the US want to pay to get him there!
They’ll need to book two seats for the fat prick
Nah, in the hold
Strapped to a pallet?
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@jegga said in NZ Politics:
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@jegga said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@louis we dont need to charter a plane, the US want to pay to get him there!
They’ll need to book two seats for the fat prick
Nah, in the hold
Strapped to a pallet?
Borrow a crate from Auckland zoo
NZ Politics