Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@Stargazer said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Stargazer said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Interesting stats and graphs in this article:
Is this cheerleading, or journalism?
Strong results at this point, no doubt. Although the author lost me at the first line with the comparison of - "Newsroom has compared New Zealand's response to that of six other countries that are similar in size, population, culture
andor region".Um yeah, ok.
Misquoting an article doesn't do your argument any good.
Sorry, that was a cut and paste which I messed up, so I typed it and entered the wrong word.
The argument is on point. Why do you think it's not?
Comparing 7 different countries who each share one attribute with one country is ridiculous.
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@Machpants said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's just that fact that any discussion on CV quickly becomes left vs right, "more of an activist than a jounralist". That's bollocks, bringing politics into this. How about you bring facts rather than political bias? Fair enough, a lot of posters on this forum are right wing, and I violently disagree with them (I pay money to The Guardian) but I don't go into the politics threads for that reason. No point, I wanna talk about rugby. But really if it is OK to bring blatant political bias (arguing the political leaning of the author rather than the facts) then we might as well go all Breitbart.
Anyway time for me to take a holiday from here.
Because I think the article is very poor and just cheerleading, which raised the quesion why someone would write something like that.... which made me look at the bio of the supposed journalist and made me wonder why he has a specialization in the far right... but not the far left.... I doubt Newsroom has a politics reporter that has a specialty of the far left. Happy to be proven wrong though. That article, that was posted for discussion btw, was very poor IMO. It may as well have been a broadcast on behalf of the govt.
If people don't want articles discussed, dont post them and say how good they are. -
The hospital does not need to lose a bunch of staff for 2 weeks because a patient failed to disclose information. It is not uncommon though
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I do think the article tells us nothing. I agree it is a cheerleading piece. How can you make a comparison when every country started from a different base point. The scales are also misleading. I don't think it's got anything to do with the fact that the author appears a leftie (it is newsroom after all) and more to do with the fact that (on this evidence) he's a hack.
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BBC Travel has done a feature on the five countries whose economies are most equipped to bounce back first.
New Zealand
Ranked 12th-most resilient in the index, (https://www.fmglobal.com/research-and-resources/tools-and-resources/resilienceindex) New Zealand scores especially high in corporate governance and its supply chain. The country has also been able to move quickly to contain the spread of the virus by shutting borders to international travellers on 19 March and enacting a non-essential-business lockdown on 25 March."
It’s our time to sit down as a New Zealand family and decide who we want to be“As an island nation, it is easier to control our borders, the main source of infections. So the effective border closure makes sense,” said Auckland resident Shamubeel Eaqub, economist at consultancy Sense Partners. “Compared to other countries, the response in New Zealand has been bold and decisive.” The measures are paying off, as some epidemiologists see it as having potential to be one of few “normal” nations left, according to a Guardian report, eliminating all cases if measures remain strong for the coming weeks.
With tourism and exports a major part of the economy, New Zealand will face some struggles to its economy in the near term, but this doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad thing. “By being insulated, we will have time to recalibrate,” said Dunedin resident Ron Bull, director of curriculum development at Otago Polytechnic. “We had already started talking about the impact of campers and backpackers on the environment, and this gives us time to weigh up what’s important against the waves of tourist dollars coming in.”
Overall, the country is well-placed for a stable recovery, with low levels of government debt and the ability to enact quantitative easing to keep interest rates low. “We have fewer constraints to both blunt the impact of dealing with [the] pandemic and supercharge the recovery,” said Eaqub. “Most importantly, New Zealand remains a relatively high-trust country. This will be a strong foundation for recovery from the biggest health and economic shock in generations.”
Bull agrees the country has a likelihood to come out stronger. “Just like a family living in the same house, you have to get to know each other,” he said. “It’s our time to sit down as a New Zealand family and decide who we want to be and make some decisions to make us stronger and better.”
Before we get too excited other countries were Denmark, Singapore, USA and Rwanda
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
The premise and idea is actually really good and could have been the basis for a very thoughtful discussion. The issue around some medical procedures being halted due to the virus. A complete separate moral dilemma from the economic one.
Yet they drop into bullshit with the petty stuff around the US an Britain compared to China
"to China, which has done a remarkable job of controlling its population to behave and prevent spread"What a load of bollox, and anyone who spouts such nonsense loses credibility as an expert.
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@Kirwan
Ron Bull is a traditional indigenous food harvester from the Southern Coast of New Zealand. His whakapapa includes Waitaha, Kati Mamoe and Kai Tahu, have been involved in the harvesting preservation, preparation and sharing of food for many generations. Their creation narratives make the specific links between people and the natural environment and therefore inform an innate knowledge and affinity to both the food and the land and sea that it comes from.
He has used these skills as a chef, with over 25 years in the hospitality industry, before moving into education. He is currently employed in a director role at the Otago Polytechnic overseeing indigenous curriculum development and the embedding of culture into the organisation. He is also a foundation member of the Kaihaukai art collective, who respond to questions of food and identity through art installations and collaborations. This forms the foundation of his research agenda: Indigenous food and identity.He draws on traditional knowledge systems to inform his teaching practice. This includes language and concepts and how they are applied to practical situations as well as the socio-political conditions that inform identity. He is very aware of how this fits with constructing his own identity, as a bicultural New Zealander from the South.
All very laudable I'm sure but how does it qualify him to talk about tourism or the economy?
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@dogmeat Yeah, have to agree. It's sort what Baron is worried about, people with an idealogical stance using this disaster as an opportunity to reshape things with their world view.
There are real world consequences to tanking the tourism sector, so many jobs and people affected.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback China does appear to be returning to some semblance of normality (based on observable) economic data. For how long who knows?
Meanwhile the US is in the middle of an absolute shit storm. I get you are triggered by the C word but it's not nonsense to suggest that, compared to more laissez faire western democracies, tightly controlled East Asian governments have an advantage in the fight against CV because they have more obedient populations.
The important point I think is that this is not a binary discussion. It's much more nuanced than deaths vs the economy. Striking the balance of protecting as many as possible while not destroying the economy is the delicate balancing act every government around the world is trying to perform.
We already "waste" multi millions of dollars every year on people who are going to die anyway and I don't think anyone begrudges that expense. This is simply an extrapolation, that I think the majority support - at this time.
What I would like to see is the source data for Cindy's repeated assertion that 100 years ago those countries that locked down most severely came out better off economically in the medium term.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan
Ron Bull is a traditional indigenous food harvester from the Southern Coast of New Zealand. His whakapapa includes Waitaha, Kati Mamoe and Kai Tahu, have been involved in the harvesting preservation, preparation and sharing of food for many generations. Their creation narratives make the specific links between people and the natural environment and therefore inform an innate knowledge and affinity to both the food and the land and sea that it comes from.
He has used these skills as a chef, with over 25 years in the hospitality industry, before moving into education. He is currently employed in a director role at the Otago Polytechnic overseeing indigenous curriculum development and the embedding of culture into the organisation. He is also a foundation member of the Kaihaukai art collective, who respond to questions of food and identity through art installations and collaborations. This forms the foundation of his research agenda: Indigenous food and identity.He draws on traditional knowledge systems to inform his teaching practice. This includes language and concepts and how they are applied to practical situations as well as the socio-political conditions that inform identity. He is very aware of how this fits with constructing his own identity, as a bicultural New Zealander from the South.
All very laudable I'm sure but how does it qualify him to talk about tourism or the economy?
I don't think he himself was claiming expertise at all.
He seems to simply be saying that this is an opportunity to check the tyres on the bus while it isn't moving.
He isn't throwing tourism under a bus just saying it is a chance to see if we can do things differently so that gain in one sector doesn't place strain elsewhere.
The general sentiment of recalibration opportunity is what many good businesses and organisations are using the shutdown for. I think plenty of individuals will also have the breathing space to think about what is really important to them and act accordingly as well.
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I think if the world borders remain tight for a sustained period, most of the tourist dollars NZers spent outside NZ will end up being spent in NZ, one reason many dont holiday here is the cost, so if the industry wants to get back on it's feet, appealing to the average NZer that would typically go to Fiji, Gold Coast, Bali etc is going to be key.
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@dogmeat countries that have coped well with the pandemic generally have one of two characteristics, or sometimes both. Strong government guidance and leadership, and a compliant population. Population density and degree of isolation could be extenuating circumstances. There is no one blueprint to success (assuming that the Scandinavian experiment works out).
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Strong government guidance and leadership, and a compliant population.
4 weeks ago I would have said we have none of those....
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@Crucial I didn't say he was claiming expertise - if he was doing that he'd have to be posting here...
As i said to @Kirwan we don't know the context of his comments and I agree we need to think about the mix of tourists and the overall numbers. The fault is with the journo (again) They tell you Shamubeel Eaqub is an expert and then quote Ron Bull inferring he also has expertise - but more on titi than tourism
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think if the world borders remain tight for a sustained period, most of the tourist dollars NZers spent outside NZ will end up being spent in NZ, one reason many dont holiday here is the cost, so if the industry wants to get back on it's feet, appealing to the average NZer that would typically go to Fiji, Gold Coast, Bali etc is going to be key.
Absolutely. We are a bit of a stingy, spendthrift lot when it comes to internal tourism. We tend to think that the prices are set for 'rich overseas tourists' and there's no way we are going near 'tourist traps'.
The industry will have to work hard to turn that thinking around but balance it with not undercutting themselves when external tourism starts up again.
Many operations will go under as they are setup solely for wealthy overseas tourists and their model won't adjust to a local clientele, but also many are in a position to cut prices to stay afloat.
As an example, operators like those doing the Dart River Jetboats targeted the Chinese tourist market with package deals. Casual local tourists were priced out. They may have to rethink their model.
Rental Cars and Campervans may have to slash prices as well. -
@Crucial i get pretty sick of the "tourism only targets rich overseas customers, and has priced locals out of the market" argument that comes up all the bloody time, and was raring its head a couple of months ago when we already knew tourism was fucked.
These types of comments have no idea the margins that tourism businesses operate at, especially when, for many, the biggest cost is labour, which gets more expensive every year (typically in front of CPI). Our pricing is market driven, especially in a competitive environment (like Cairns, or Rotorua), we generally don't get to move prices very much, as the ITOs just move elsewhere.
Add in the fact almost every operation i know has a local's discount of at least 20%, and i find the argument rarely holds water.