Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@taniwharugby hit her hard
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@Winger most church goers have been but the biggest part of the Auckland cluster was centred around an episcopal church linked to a bunch of deniers in the US who ignored all the lockdown restrictions because the church told them corona virus was bogus and the Lord Jesus and the Trumpmeister would protect them.
Then when it started circulating though them they initially refused to cooperate with contact tracing because the lord jesus etc
It's presumably why @Mokey said the church goers rather than simply church goers
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@Tim said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
The Government has signed an agreement to purchase 1.5 million Covid-19 vaccines – enough for 750,000 people.
The deal will allow the purchase of vaccines from Pfizer and BioNTech, subject to the vaccine successfully completing all clinical trials and passing regulatory approvals in New Zealand, Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods and Health Minister Chris Hipkins said.
"Our first vaccine purchase agreement has been signed and it brings to fruition some of the critical work going on behind the scenes to keep New Zealanders safe from Covid-19," Woods said.
"As part of the agreement, vaccine delivery to New Zealand could be as early as the first quarter of 2021. This is just the first tranche of work in a multi-pronged approach to ensuring we secure vaccines for New Zealanders.
Woods said: "Pfizer have said they are making good progress with the development of a Covid-19 vaccine. Subject to clinical and regulatory success, and provided the vaccine is approved for use here in New Zealand by Medsafe, it is possible that some doses will be available to us in the first part of 2021."
Question. Why the fuck should NZ get access to early phase vaccines? So you can open borders and allow tourists back in?
That is a piss weak argument in my view. Vaccines should be distributed first and foremost to the vulnerable in the countries that have been ravaged by it. I have no desire or need for one myself, but the vulnerable people who live around me deserve it much more than any single person in New Zealand. They are facing a locked up Winter, after a locked up Spring & minimal movement in Summer.
If anybody in NZ gets a vaccine before any of them, it'll be enough to turn me left.
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@MajorRage I want what's best for NZ and myself, and don't care about countries that can't afford them. The other Western, and developed Asian, countries will probably get them before NZ.
I need to travel, so want safe and effective protection ASAP.
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@Tim said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@MajorRage I want what's best for NZ and myself, and don't care about countries that can't afford them. The other Western, and developed Asian, countries will probably get them before NZ.
I need to travel, so want safe and effective protection ASAP.
Cool, I'll let me neighbour know that after your summer of freedom, you have a desire to travel so you deserve a vaccine more than her having spent 8 of the last 12 months locked in her house
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Perhaps the NZ government should pass up the opportunity to secure a supply for NZ, and just hope that there isn't a serious outbreak on their immunologically naive population? Would that be fairer?
What about paying more tax in the UK and being able to make more vaccines there?
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@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
the vulnerable people who live around me deserve it much more than any single person in New Zealand.
Sorry for you that your head is in such a bad space that you could write something so totally fucked up.
The very idea that your vulnerable neighbour is more deserving than someone with (e.g.) MS or cancer in NZ.....
Of course she will appreciate that Brazil has been far more "ravaged" than the UK and so will happily forego her dose of a vaccine in favour of someone more deserving from Sao Paulo's favelas.
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I can see where MajorRage is coming from. NZ has been far less effected than other countries, and there are people doing it tough still in lockdown (either self imposed, or government imposed).
So the sentiment is right, you want to help the people most effected where possible.
Where I disagree is that it's not NZ's responsibilty to solve that problem. Their job is to source potential vaccines for it's citizens. I'd be surprised if we do end up getting vaccines that much before countries like the UK, anyway.
As plenty of people have said, there is a huge cost to how government's have handled this pandemic. The tail of devastation to the economy, people's mental health, etc isn't going to be felt for some time. And when we do the final tally, I'm not convinced that we haven't just swapped how people die from column A to column B and done little to no overall good.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan I don't think the cost can be reduced to an either or, lives vs economy choice. This is the kobayashi maru, all choices are bad and all result in someone suffering
And I didn't say that, I'm saying that the damage done will cost lives (suicide increase, health impacts from stress, loss of income, etc). On top of that is the economic impacts which will increase poverty and reduce opportunities for people.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Where I disagree is that it's not NZ's responsibilty to solve that problem. Their job is to source potential vaccines for it's citizens. I'd be surprised if we do end up getting vaccines that much before countries like the UK, anyway.
Yep. In practice I'll be very surprised if we end up with a vaccine widely available in NZ before @MajorRage's neighbour gets a vaccine.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan I don't think the cost can be reduced to an either or, lives vs economy choice. This is the kobayashi maru, all choices are bad and all result in someone suffering
And I didn't say that, I'm saying that the damage done will cost lives (suicide increase, health impacts from stress, loss of income, etc). On top of that is the economic impacts which will increase poverty and reduce opportunities for people.
I wasn't arguing with what you said, if anything just expanding on it. The pain will be spread, no one will escape unaffected
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@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan yeah and hindsight will surely just be an argument of how fucked over everyone was, rather than if. A right shit sandwich for sure
Hindsight is 20/20. All things considered NZ has come out alright to date
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
the vulnerable people who live around me deserve it much more than any single person in New Zealand.
Sorry for you that your head is in such a bad space that you could write something so totally fucked up.
The very idea that your vulnerable neighbour is more deserving than someone with (e.g.) MS or cancer in NZ.....
Not sure you could be further away from understanding my point there. And shove your head space comment up your arse.
Of course she will appreciate that Brazil has been far more "ravaged" than the UK and so will happily forego her dose of a vaccine in favour of someone more deserving from Sao Paulo's favelas.
Did read all of what I wrote? Maybe read the last sentence again eh?
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I can see where MajorRage is coming from. NZ has been far less effected than other countries, and there are people doing it tough still in lockdown (either self imposed, or government imposed).
So the sentiment is right, you want to help the people most effected where possible.
Yes, exactly. During D-day should they have been sending guns to NZ, instead of the front line assaults, just in case?
Where I disagree is that it's not NZ's responsibilty to solve that problem. Their job is to source potential vaccines for it's citizens. I'd be surprised if we do end up getting vaccines that much before countries like the UK, anyway.
In behind the front line assault of my thought process, I don't think I disagree with the above. Doesn't mean that I haven't earned the right to be extremely pissed off if NZ remains covid-free (pretty big IF, granted) and gains vaccines before the UK.
As plenty of people have said, there is a huge cost to how government's have handled this pandemic. The tail of devastation to the economy, people's mental health, etc isn't going to be felt for some time. And when we do the final tally, I'm not convinced that we haven't just swapped how people die from column A to column B and done little to no overall good.
I'm 100% sure you haven't. But that's hard to debate / discuss at this point in time with too many unknowns.