Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@Tim said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@MajorRage I want what's best for NZ and myself, and don't care about countries that can't afford them. The other Western, and developed Asian, countries will probably get them before NZ.
I need to travel, so want safe and effective protection ASAP.
Cool, I'll let me neighbour know that after your summer of freedom, you have a desire to travel so you deserve a vaccine more than her having spent 8 of the last 12 months locked in her house
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Perhaps the NZ government should pass up the opportunity to secure a supply for NZ, and just hope that there isn't a serious outbreak on their immunologically naive population? Would that be fairer?
What about paying more tax in the UK and being able to make more vaccines there?
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@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
the vulnerable people who live around me deserve it much more than any single person in New Zealand.
Sorry for you that your head is in such a bad space that you could write something so totally fucked up.
The very idea that your vulnerable neighbour is more deserving than someone with (e.g.) MS or cancer in NZ.....
Of course she will appreciate that Brazil has been far more "ravaged" than the UK and so will happily forego her dose of a vaccine in favour of someone more deserving from Sao Paulo's favelas.
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I can see where MajorRage is coming from. NZ has been far less effected than other countries, and there are people doing it tough still in lockdown (either self imposed, or government imposed).
So the sentiment is right, you want to help the people most effected where possible.
Where I disagree is that it's not NZ's responsibilty to solve that problem. Their job is to source potential vaccines for it's citizens. I'd be surprised if we do end up getting vaccines that much before countries like the UK, anyway.
As plenty of people have said, there is a huge cost to how government's have handled this pandemic. The tail of devastation to the economy, people's mental health, etc isn't going to be felt for some time. And when we do the final tally, I'm not convinced that we haven't just swapped how people die from column A to column B and done little to no overall good.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan I don't think the cost can be reduced to an either or, lives vs economy choice. This is the kobayashi maru, all choices are bad and all result in someone suffering
And I didn't say that, I'm saying that the damage done will cost lives (suicide increase, health impacts from stress, loss of income, etc). On top of that is the economic impacts which will increase poverty and reduce opportunities for people.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Where I disagree is that it's not NZ's responsibilty to solve that problem. Their job is to source potential vaccines for it's citizens. I'd be surprised if we do end up getting vaccines that much before countries like the UK, anyway.
Yep. In practice I'll be very surprised if we end up with a vaccine widely available in NZ before @MajorRage's neighbour gets a vaccine.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan I don't think the cost can be reduced to an either or, lives vs economy choice. This is the kobayashi maru, all choices are bad and all result in someone suffering
And I didn't say that, I'm saying that the damage done will cost lives (suicide increase, health impacts from stress, loss of income, etc). On top of that is the economic impacts which will increase poverty and reduce opportunities for people.
I wasn't arguing with what you said, if anything just expanding on it. The pain will be spread, no one will escape unaffected
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@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan yeah and hindsight will surely just be an argument of how fucked over everyone was, rather than if. A right shit sandwich for sure
Hindsight is 20/20. All things considered NZ has come out alright to date
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
the vulnerable people who live around me deserve it much more than any single person in New Zealand.
Sorry for you that your head is in such a bad space that you could write something so totally fucked up.
The very idea that your vulnerable neighbour is more deserving than someone with (e.g.) MS or cancer in NZ.....
Not sure you could be further away from understanding my point there. And shove your head space comment up your arse.
Of course she will appreciate that Brazil has been far more "ravaged" than the UK and so will happily forego her dose of a vaccine in favour of someone more deserving from Sao Paulo's favelas.
Did read all of what I wrote? Maybe read the last sentence again eh?
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I can see where MajorRage is coming from. NZ has been far less effected than other countries, and there are people doing it tough still in lockdown (either self imposed, or government imposed).
So the sentiment is right, you want to help the people most effected where possible.
Yes, exactly. During D-day should they have been sending guns to NZ, instead of the front line assaults, just in case?
Where I disagree is that it's not NZ's responsibilty to solve that problem. Their job is to source potential vaccines for it's citizens. I'd be surprised if we do end up getting vaccines that much before countries like the UK, anyway.
In behind the front line assault of my thought process, I don't think I disagree with the above. Doesn't mean that I haven't earned the right to be extremely pissed off if NZ remains covid-free (pretty big IF, granted) and gains vaccines before the UK.
As plenty of people have said, there is a huge cost to how government's have handled this pandemic. The tail of devastation to the economy, people's mental health, etc isn't going to be felt for some time. And when we do the final tally, I'm not convinced that we haven't just swapped how people die from column A to column B and done little to no overall good.
I'm 100% sure you haven't. But that's hard to debate / discuss at this point in time with too many unknowns.
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@taniwharugby Well if we are importing foreign semen we are going to have health issues.
Sometimes an "a" is really important although in this case it wouldn't change anything, just a different pox being brought in.
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so another 23 of those imported cases today, plus 2 related to the POrt worker in the community.
Assume the workers imported by Sealord is all at thier expense too?
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