-
@Winger said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
If I was rigging a presidential election I would make sure to win the house and the senate too....
It was hard as Trump got too many votes. 6 million more than last time. Lots more than Obama for example
Yes. A record voter turnout will do that.
Funny how you're not questioning ANY of those Trump votes tho...
The whole thing needs to be looked at. Esp the security and accuracy of these voter tabulation databases (and where the data is held). And the companies (based on Spain or Germany maybe) that own and run them
Why now though? What evidence points to problems in this area that haven't already been checked out?
Do you actually maintain that almost 5 million votes in this election have been tampered? That's the popular margin.Now we all know that isn't the EC system but 5 million more voters want Biden over Trump. Time to accept that situation and move on.
If there are genuine issues exposed in a study of the election then by all means look to tighten things or change the system. I think we were all saying that in the previous months.
IIRC you maintained that Trump would win by a very large margin. The shift from that to the current situation is massive. Far more than a few dead people or immigrants without full paperwork or voting station errors. -
@Siam said in US Politics:
It'd be great Leadership from Joe if he publicly supported an investigation.
Would expose Trump's tactics and be a genuine first step to uniting the country. Take away the them and us rhetoric
I will admit that I think his acceptance has been a little early and doesn't acknowledge the recounts let alone the accusations.
Would have been good to urge the recounts to be done quickly at least.
Best way to combat the fraud accusations is to admit that no system is foolproof but that the weight of evidence and confidence amounts to no material effect. -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
IIRC you maintained that Trump would win by a very large margin. The shift from that to the current situation is massive. Far more than a few dead people or immigrants without full paperwork or voting station errors.
Agree. It would need fraud at the voting tabulation level
But do you really believe sleepy Joe (who hardly campaigned) got millions more votes than Hillary and Obama. Trump got 6 million more but this reflects his rally numbers. Joe was a terrible candidate
-
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Why now though? What evidence points to problems in this area that haven't already been checked out?
Joe getting votes added to his total. There is clear evidence of this in the video I linked to below. It 1 hour long but certainly worth a watch
There is also the example where votes were switched from Trump to Biden (since detected and corrected) -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Siam said in US Politics:
It'd be great Leadership from Joe if he publicly supported an investigation.
Would expose Trump's tactics and be a genuine first step to uniting the country. Take away the them and us rhetoric
I will admit that I think his acceptance has been a little early and doesn't acknowledge the recounts let alone the accusations.
Would have been good to urge the recounts to be done quickly at least.
Best way to combat the fraud accusations is to admit that no system is foolproof but that the weight of evidence and confidence amounts to no material effect.he's in a tough spot with the acceptance, if the vast majority of the press and calling him President Elect then he kind of needs to address it and cant really be see to be shying away from the big job
but yes, some comment about allowing all allegations to be swiftly/thoroughly addressed would be good
-
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
IIRC you maintained that Trump would win by a very large margin. The shift from that to the current situation is massive. Far more than a few dead people or immigrants without full paperwork or voting station errors.
Agree. It would need fraud at the voting tabulation level
But do you really believe sleepy Joe (who hardly campaigned) got millions more votes than Hillary and Obama. Trump got 6 million more but this reflects his rally numbers. Joe was a terrible candidate
I think people were more voting against Trump then for Biden. I know I would have voted for anyone other than Trump regardless of their campaign.
-
@chimoaus said in US Politics:
I think people were more voting against Trump then for Biden.
yeah I think that is a part of it, despite Biden seemingly a soft option, to many, he was the only option, with Trump fans loving him, but the rest disliking him, I dont think there would be many in the middle who didnt care.
-
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
IIRC you maintained that Trump would win by a very large margin. The shift from that to the current situation is massive. Far more than a few dead people or immigrants without full paperwork or voting station errors.
Agree. It would need fraud at the voting tabulation level
But do you really believe sleepy Joe (who hardly campaigned) got millions more votes than Hillary and Obama. Trump got 6 million more but this reflects his rally numbers. Joe was a terrible candidate
Did Trump get millions of people at his rallies? I must have missed that.
Would be surprising though considering there is a pandemic raging throughout the country -
@dogmeat said in US Politics:
I desewrve a medal. I have just waded through all the posts in this thread since I last visited Friday afternoon.
To save anyone else having to do so - here's a quick precis
Joe Biden has been declared the winner of the 2020 US Presidential election by almost everyone except President Trump and diehard supporters.
Most of the pro Trump posters on this forum seem to have deserted the topic
@Winger hasn't .....
Consensus seems to be there has undoubtedly been small scale voter fraud as there is in every election everywhere but insignificant in the overall picture and not going to impact the election result.
Logic attests to the above
(ex) President Trump and Winger disagree.
Not that I'm pro-Trump, more pro-Republican, but I've been avoiding this topic pretty much as there isn't much to say.
If there is evidence of fraud, it'll be presented through the courts. That evidence will be worth discussing. I ignore pretty much anything Trump has to say as he's a blow hard, and isn't doing the process any favours with his statements.
Until we see the evidence, neither side of this argument can say whether there has been widespread fraud or not. It certainly won't be presented in the media (not appropriate, and even Fox News despise Trump so unlikely to be enthusiatically reported)
To answer one question above about why the Senate/Congressional seats haven been effected, there have been reports of Presidential only ballots being found. Will it stand up in court? We will have to wait and see.
Also reports of dumped ballots in the rubbish, pre-selected ballots, all sorts of rumours. That's why haveing overseers is so important, to squash these sorts of things.
Likely result is Biden has won, IMO. But it's premature to say exactly what has happned until the election process is complete. And that includes the courts proceedings in what has been a very close election).
Gore was annouced the winner prematurely in the press in 2000, for example.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Siam said in US Politics:
It'd be great Leadership from Joe if he publicly supported an investigation.
Would expose Trump's tactics and be a genuine first step to uniting the country. Take away the them and us rhetoric
I will admit that I think his acceptance has been a little early and doesn't acknowledge the recounts let alone the accusations.
Would have been good to urge the recounts to be done quickly at least.
Best way to combat the fraud accusations is to admit that no system is foolproof but that the weight of evidence and confidence amounts to no material effect.he's in a tough spot with the acceptance, if the vast majority of the press and calling him President Elect then he kind of needs to address it and cant really be see to be shying away from the big job
but yes, some comment about allowing all allegations to be swiftly/thoroughly addressed would be good
A statesman would remind everyone that the media don't have authority to call him president elect and urge the process on.
The people have ostensibly asked for a better leader, Joe is in a great position to show they've got one.
-
@Siam said in US Politics:
The people have ostensibly asked for a better leader, Joe is in a great position to show they've got one.
However, as a few pundits have said: the real issues don't magically go away with a change of President. If he takes residence at the WH in January, the first order of business is getting blamed for everything
-
@broughie said in US Politics:
@barbarian Probably because all the shenanigans seem to happen in the big cities which are almost 100% controlled by Democrats. Maybe if you lived here you might understand.
But correct me if I'm wrong (as you say, I don't live there)- voting administration would be controlled by state government, not city government.
So the Dems may control the cities, but do they have any control over the voting/counting infrastructure if they don't control the state legislature?
-
@Siam some might argue he's already well on his way on that front. Also wonder if he's seeing it as more appropriate to let the correct institutions/agencies take care of their knitting. I feel like he clearly and repeatedly talked about due process by the rules etc, etc so coming out to address concerns only adds fuel to the fire?
-
@Siam said in US Politics:
A statesman would remind everyone that the media don't have authority to call him president elect and urge the process on.
I don't think Biden is acting too hastily, it's convention for candidates to accept victory/defeat before it's official. It's been a close election but I think it's fair to act on the assumption there's been no widespread fraud, whilst also allowing any allegations to be investigated.
-
@barbarian said in US Politics:
@broughie said in US Politics:
@barbarian Probably because all the shenanigans seem to happen in the big cities which are almost 100% controlled by Democrats. Maybe if you lived here you might understand.
But correct me if I'm wrong (as you say, I don't live there)- voting administration would be controlled by state government, not city government.
So the Dems may control the cities, but do they have any control over the voting/counting infrastructure if they don't control the state legislature?
There were a stack of legal cases prior to polling day across a number of states, many initiated by the Democrats, around laws surrounding mail-in ballots. Not a lot of coverage on those.
-
@ACT-Crusader which is either business as usual for an election, but likely with added spice due to covid related behavior. Which would be another indication that all parties knew what was on the cards. Not the outcome but a handle on the increased volume of mail in vote.
-
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
@ACT-Crusader which is either business as usual for an election, but likely with added spice due to covid related behavior. Which would be another indication that all parties knew what was on the cards. Not the outcome but a handle on the increased volume of mail in vote.
Based on my study of US elections over the last 25 years, I donβt think it was business as usual. There are always legal cases particularly in certain districts where there are some unusual practices, but this time round it was significantly higher. Yes the Covid factor but some of the cases were pretty dubious particularly around verification waiving.
It all just adds to the intrigue π
-
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
If there is evidence of fraud, it'll be presented through the courts. That evidence will be worth discussing. I ignore pretty much anything Trump has to say as he's a blow hard, and isn't doing the process any favours with his statements.
Until we see the evidence, neither side of this argument can say whether there has been widespread fraud or not. It certainly won't be presented in the media (not appropriate, and even Fox News despise Trump so unlikely to be enthusiatically reported)
I'm curious how people could explain away this data from the NY times....
US Politics