Coronavirus - China
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To the point of the thread title though, yes China have been dodgy and tried to keep a lid on things.
I guess my point is that most governments are well aware how China operate and it is up to them to make calls for their own citizens. Implying that they were blind to risk because of China’s actions and have been duped into failing to act is a stretch. -
@Crucial in hindsight it is easy to say we should have could have done this or that, but this has still happened hugely quickly...I mean 14 days ago, I had just returned from school camp, and things had started to take a serious turn:
15/03 - first round of travel restrictions imposed (however soft they seemed)
19/03 - further restrictions on our borders
26/03 - NZ in lockdown
03/04 - todayI am sure every Government, given the chance would do things differently, but we are where we are now, on the surface, in a much better position than most of the rest of the world IMO.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - China:
@Crucial in hindsight it is easy to say we should have could have done this or that, but this has still happened hugely quickly...I mean 14 days ago, I had just returned from school camp, and things had started to take a serious turn:
15/03 - first round of travel restrictions imposed (however soft they seemed)
19/03 - further restrictions on our borders
26/03 - NZ in lockdown
03/04 - todayI am sure every Government, given the chance would do things differently, but we are where we are now, on the surface, in a much better position than most of the rest of the world IMO.
The speed that things escalated was amazing. We got an email to say that we had to restrict our services and 24 hours later we were being shut down. But thinking about what Crucial said, China and the US are what I would consider the world's super powers right now. It would seem unlikely that intelligence organs of the US weren't aware that something was going on, seeing as it is their business to keep tabs on the situation inside their rival's camp
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - China:
To the point of the thread title though, yes China have been dodgy and tried to keep a lid on things.
I guess my point is that most governments are well aware how China operate and it is up to them to make calls for their own citizens. Implying that they were blind to risk because of China’s actions and have been duped into failing to act is a stretch.Knowing they are dodgy is one thing, them hiding a pandemic is another. And that doesnt even take into account the WHO failing vcomp,etey and just acitng ike Chinas bitch.
Serious question.. why would any country contribute to the WHO after this? What actual value have they added considering the HUGE budget they get. Would the world be any worse off if they just didn't exist during this crisis?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
Very interesting if that becomes the truth. I have seen articles explaining how it is very unlikely that Covid-19 is manufactured though, on the basis of the analysis of the virus itself. It is way too organic to be designed (or something like that)
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
Very interesting if that becomes the truth. I have seen articles explaining how it is very unlikely that Covid-19 is manufactured though, on the basis of the analysis of the virus itself. It is way too organic to be designed (or something like that)
They're not claiming it was manufactured, they're saying the labs were doing testing on bat's and someone got infected with Covid-19 as a result. That seems the most likely source IMO, and helps explain why the Chinese government was so secretive about it when it broke out.
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@No-Quarter said in Coronavirus - China:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
Very interesting if that becomes the truth. I have seen articles explaining how it is very unlikely that Covid-19 is manufactured though, on the basis of the analysis of the virus itself. It is way too organic to be designed (or something like that)
They're not claiming it was manufactured, they're saying the labs were doing testing on bat's and someone got infected with Covid-19 as a result. That seems the most likely source IMO, and helps explain why the Chinese government was so secretive about it when it broke out.
Cheers. I did jump to a conclusion there without reading the link. I was on my phone and couldn't click through. Self kick in the arse
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@No-Quarter said in Coronavirus - China:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
Very interesting if that becomes the truth. I have seen articles explaining how it is very unlikely that Covid-19 is manufactured though, on the basis of the analysis of the virus itself. It is way too organic to be designed (or something like that)
They're not claiming it was manufactured, they're saying the labs were doing testing on bat's and someone got infected with Covid-19 as a result. That seems the most likely source IMO, and helps explain why the Chinese government was so secretive about it when it broke out.
Maybe that article just doesn't delve into the detail but it has huge leaps of logic that lead to the next 'therefore'. Hard not to wonder how much confirmation bias is involved.
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@No-Quarter No way it was 2500. Even with the extreme lockdown measures they implemented things were already sliding by then
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - China:
@No-Quarter No way it was 2500. Even with the extreme lockdown measures they implemented things were already sliding by then
That takes it to 100,000 world wide, and 10% death toll from confirmed cases numbers (probably higher, so death rate is likely lower, but still pretty high)
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - China:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - China:
@No-Quarter No way it was 2500. Even with the extreme lockdown measures they implemented things were already sliding by then
That takes it to 100,000 world wide, and 10% death toll from confirmed cases numbers (probably higher, so death rate is likely lower, but still pretty high)
The total is high. And the speed it happened is pretty damn scary
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - China:
10% death toll from confirmed cases numbers (probably higher, so death rate is likely lower, but still pretty high)
Counter-argument was posted earlier. Research in The Economis tshows there is a massive shortfall in the number of reported COVID-19 deaths in a host of European countries. Taking historic death numbers for March and adding reported COVID deaths comes nowhere near the total number of deaths reported for March. The shortfall is about equal to the number of reported CV deaths.
Same stories coming out of US although there it is the lack of testing that is being blames for an under-reporting of COVID deaths.
So yeah there are undoubtedly a lot of unreported cases but unfortunately it also appears as if there a shitload of unreported deaths
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - China:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - China:
10% death toll from confirmed cases numbers (probably higher, so death rate is likely lower, but still pretty high)
Counter-argument was posted earlier. Research in The Economis tshows there is a massive shortfall in the number of reported COVID-19 deaths in a host of European countries. Taking historic death numbers for March and adding reported COVID deaths comes nowhere near the total number of deaths reported for March. The shortfall is about equal to the number of reported CV deaths.
Same stories coming out of US although there it is the lack of testing that is being blames for an under-reporting of COVID deaths.
So yeah there are undoubtedly a lot of unreported cases but unfortunately it also appears as if there a shitload of unreported deaths
Dont buy it. I could provide conflicting reports stating the opposite, and that's the issue, I have no proof your report is wrong, and vice versa if I show some reports. The experts are disagreeing and modeling is showing to be incredibly unreliable.
heck people cant even agree what counts as a wuflu death is, let alone tally them.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback I think that's the point.
The China numbers are totally fucked but hardly anyone's can be trusted. Everyone has different testing regimes, the US had hardly done any testing (proportionately) before they had community transmission - some cases are still only testing hospitalised patients.
That's what Bloomfield said today - the fact the we are now testing much more but the number of cases is stable is good news and suggests that while it is out in the community not to a massive extent.
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Dug this one out of the archives. Even @Baron-Silas-Greenback was around!
Any idea what's happening @Tim ?
This was just the last reference I found to it but they all state in that there aren't any new / different pathogens (if you believe China). Interesting that it could be a semi anticipated side effect of lockdowns, it comes and gets you anyway.
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Woman at work is heading back to China this week for first time in years. She has been told 'almost everyone' has Covid.
She had it last Christmas and isn't looking forward to a second year of sickness if as she has been told is very likely she gets sick as soon as she touches down.