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@NTA said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
IMO ascribing this to Trump misses the point Eco makes: it's not about the leader, it's about the conditions that allow such a leader to arise and thrive.
Yeah - which basically makes everyone's point above valid: let's go back a few decades to make sure we understand how things got this fucked up. I'm not as well-read as @JC but its pretty clear that the root cause isn't Obama, its not Democrats, Bushes, Clintons, or Republicans. Its the system, and they all contributed to it in varying degrees.
Saw a video compilation of Bannon today and thought "wow, what a fucking whacko"
This kind of religious rhetoric - countries "bequeathed" and "divine providence" - is the language of an extremist.
What is interesting about this post is that I took a completely and utterly different meaning from that video than what you did. He was clearly just taken out of context form soundbites.
I actually watched the whole clip where the 'bequeathed' statement was made was actually in reference to being bequeathed by the founding fathers, not god.
And as we all know I already agreed with his positions on the spread of Islam and how dangerous the ideology is. Just as we know that you dont.I a m starting to just assume a more simplistic first test for 'fucktardness' and 'evil'.. if someone is arguing against free speech... they are fucktards, not matter what. The only exception being directly encouraging violence. Islam fails my test in the most awesome of fashions.
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What a few of you are clearly insinuating (without actually wanting to say it) is that while the conditions for fascism might not have been caused by Trump, Trump might be the guy to take advantage of it. I call bullshit.
The only 'fascism' is currently coming from the left. (suppression of free speech, violence and general hysterics gleefully whipped up by MSM).
Trump is a threat to the 'comfortable' neo-liberal status quo for certain groups on society. He wants a big change in direction. Whenever this happens, there will always be massive resistance.
Here are a few of the ways he is pissing different groups off.
- America first trade policy
- Anti Islamic immigration
- Aggressive defender of Judeo-Christian values (look at Bannon for that)
- Does not pander to minorities or women and has in fact empowered "white trash" (can't have that)
- Highly traditional alpha male (contrast with Obama or Trudeau)
- Hostile mass media looking to pounce of anything.
- Hostile universities.
- The WALL
- Uncompromising, dynamic, unpredictable, aggressive, authoritative.....................
I could go on but it might stress a few of you snowflakes out
My brother has Trump derangement syndrome. A formerly rational guy. He sent me that link of the NZ Herald about how Trump might be planning a coup. Seriously, think about that. This is being reported in NZ's biggest newspaper. The world has lost its mind.
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http://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-russia-ties-michael-flynn-dossier-2017-2
Russian ties to Trump campaign, the continuing story
Interesting back story around Putin
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-vladimir-putin-rose-to-power-2017-2
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@Frank said in US Politics:
What a few of you are clearly insinuating (without actually wanting to say it)
That's implying.
- Highly traditional alpha male (contrast with Obama or Trudeau)
I cringe every time someone says "alpha male"
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@dK said in US Politics:
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-russia-ties-michael-flynn-dossier-2017-2
Russian ties to Trump campaign, the continuing story
Interesting back story around Putin
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-vladimir-putin-rose-to-power-2017-2
Wrong thread, your post should be in the conspiracy theory thread. That article has the most crucial aspect of a good conspiracy theory, it spends most of its time trying to mix correlation with causation. It should be in a text book on conspiracy theories.
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@antipodean
Perhaps should I say dominant?/ I don't know. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Yeah, it amazes me that there are so many people from right across the political spectrum who fail to see that the strongest bulwark against fascism is the full and free flow of ideas. The attitude that "I know best and anybody who disagrees needs to be silenced" is IMO the seed from which intolerance grows, and its fruit is totalitarianism. People need to be able to call it out early and loud without fear of losing their livelihoods or their liberties.
While the orthodox definitions of fascism position it as a solely right-wing phenomenon (Robert Paxton has authored probably the definitive book on it, The Anatomy of Fascism) I think there's an clear palingenesis of the fascist tendency to ban what you don't agree with, and it's now as prevalent on the hard left as it has historically been on the ultra-conservative right. Hate-speech laws, which were well-meaning in their conception, have served to encourage the suppression of rationalism (Anthony Lewis's "Freedom for the Thought That We Hate" is outstanding on this and worryingly prescient), with an insistence on moral relativism and that is hard to fathom. And it's hard not to see an irony in the Trump administration's use of distortions and lies as tools against the type of people who deny such obvious binary truths as biological gender.
My own view is that when it comes to fascism the left-right thing is a bit of a red herring. I doubt the people in the socialist utopia that is North Korea are appreciably happier than those who lived under Franco. There's no such thing as benign suppression of people or ideas.
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@JC said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Yeah, it amazes me that there are so many people from right across the political spectrum who fail to see that the strongest bulwark against fascism is the full and free flow of ideas. The attitude that "I know best and anybody who disagrees needs to be silenced" is IMO the seed from which intolerance grows, and its fruit is totalitarianism. People need to be able to call it out early and loud without fear of losing their livelihoods or their liberties.
While the orthodox definitions of fascism position it as a solely right-wing phenomenon (Robert Paxton has authored probably the definitive book on it, The Anatomy of Fascism) I think there's an clear palingenesis of the fascist tendency to ban what you don't agree with, and it's now as prevalent on the hard left as it has historically been on the ultra-conservative right. Hate-speech laws, which were well-meaning in their conception, have served to encourage the suppression of rationalism (Anthony Lewis's "Freedom for the Thought That We Hate" is outstanding on this and worryingly prescient), with an insistence on moral relativism and that is hard to fathom. And it's hard not to see an irony in the Trump administration's use of distortions and lies as tools against the type of people who deny such obvious binary truths as biological gender.
My own view is that when it comes to fascism the left-right thing is a bit of a red herring. I doubt the people in the socialist utopia that is North Korea are appreciably happier than those who lived under Franco. There's no such thing as benign suppression of people or ideas.
Great post. I am struggling to think of any real causes or people on the hard right that still try to suppress other ideas. I am more of the school of thought that free speech is VASTLY more likely to be attacked from the right than the left, that is also why so many classic liberals now identify as right wing instead of left. There really is no liberalism in the modern left.
When was the last time a right wing movement silenced anything?
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
Then again, if it all goes to shit for the Republicans under Trump then the Dems will win big time, regardless of who they put up
And this is the thing now: the middle people don't vote FOR someone, they vote AGAINST someone.
That's always been true.
@NTA said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Swing of over 13% in 2012 to win government. Labor went from 51 seats to 7. Three years later they won government again with 44 seats and a swing of 14%
They're predicting a swing of about 12% against Barnett in WA in the upcoming state election.
This is two-party politics now I guess. One term governments might just become the norm, or hung Parliament situations.
Can't help but believe this is a symptom of the online era; people don't have any patience anymore. Instant gratification and a 24 hour news cycle means people are entertained by items that make sfa difference and expect complex problems to be resolved within an election cycle, often with a hostile senate.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
When was the last time a right wing movement silenced anything?
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Well he's in good company at least -
Even better, he tweeted it
Given this thread is 80% random spam videos, here's a decent one, John Oliver on why lying is a big deal -
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We good to discuss this again now? Since you & BSG & Kirwan seemed to keep tabs (and really care about) how often my calls come true?
For me, if he is impeached it'll be for covering up something staggeringly bad his team have done - eg for a tape of Flynn joking with Putin about how to get rid of Ryan by hacking his email. The team around Trump are the ones I'd be looking to go after if I were the CIA / NSA, FBIs because they will 100% do something. Tho' it'll just be Flynn or DeVos who get shitcanned.
Woah! Is that another political prediction you are making here?
I was referring to your prediction that - "because they will 100% do something. Tho' it'll just be Flynn or DeVos who get shitcanned." I don't have your depth of political insight to be 100% sure of anything in this area.Of you wanna wait till Flynn is actually arrested?
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Interesting read regarding the Intelligence community (international and domestic) reaction to the new administration
http://observer.com/2017/02/donald-trump-administration-mike-flynn-russian-embassy/
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@gollum said in US Politics:
We good to discuss this again now? Since you & BSG & Kirwan seemed to keep tabs (and really care about) how often my calls come true?
For me, if he is impeached it'll be for covering up something staggeringly bad his team have done - eg for a tape of Flynn joking with Putin about how to get rid of Ryan by hacking his email. The team around Trump are the ones I'd be looking to go after if I were the CIA / NSA, FBIs because they will 100% do something. Tho' it'll just be Flynn or DeVos who get shitcanned.
Woah! Is that another political prediction you are making here?
I was referring to your prediction that - "because they will 100% do something. Tho' it'll just be Flynn or DeVos who get shitcanned." I don't have your depth of political insight to be 100% sure of anything in this area.Of you wanna wait till Flynn is actually arrested?
Sorry which prediction of yours has come true? But at least it will be proof that a broken clock is right twice a day.
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
Interesting read regarding the Intelligence community (international and domestic) reaction to the new administration
http://observer.com/2017/02/donald-trump-administration-mike-flynn-russian-embassy/
Fark. That is some disturbing shit. Not only the with holding off information for fear of compromise by foreign powers, but starlets like this:
"Our spies have never liked Trump’s lackadaisical attitude toward the President’s Daily Brief, the most sensitive of all IC documents, which the new commander-in-chief has received haphazardly. The president has frequently blown off the PDB altogether, tasking Flynn with condensing it into a one-page summary with no more than nine bullet-points. Some in the IC are relieved by this, but there are pervasive concerns that the president simply isn’t paying attention to intelligence."
Remembering Trump is the guy who wasn't versed in the nuclear triad, and it makes for poor reading indeed
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Interesting read regarding the Intelligence community (international and domestic) reaction to the new administration
http://observer.com/2017/02/donald-trump-administration-mike-flynn-russian-embassy/
Fark. That is some disturbing shit. Not only the with holding off information for fear of compromise by foreign powers, but starlets like this:
"Our spies have never liked Trump’s lackadaisical attitude toward the President’s Daily Brief, the most sensitive of all IC documents, which the new commander-in-chief has received haphazardly. The president has frequently blown off the PDB altogether, tasking Flynn with condensing it into a one-page summary with no more than nine bullet-points. Some in the IC are relieved by this, but there are pervasive concerns that the president simply isn’t paying attention to intelligence."
Remembering Trump is the guy who wasn't versed in the nuclear triad, and it makes for poor reading indeed
Disturbing? I found it an hilarious work of fiction. I am totally over these alleged 'sources' supposedly talking to the left wing media.
US Politics