Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz
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@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
at TR Jnrs school, they have a uniform, but they dont have a uniform jacket/coat (for rain) but if you get one it has to be in school colours...I think it is dumb cos he has an awesome waterproof that isnt his school colour and will only be limited time he wears it to get to class to stay dry and then take it off, but I bought him a cheap one in his school colour...should I in fact have sent him in a non-school colored one to stick it to the man?
That would be your call based on your knowledge of both the situation and how it would affect your son.
Look, I agree that this mum is probably coming across a bit shrill but I would also give her the benefit of doubt that she has brought up a good kid that comes across as being able to deal quite well with being in this situation. If you had a more shy or sensitive kid that didn't like being focussed on then sure, handle things differently.
As for being 'entitled' she has a good argument there. It's all very well to dismiss this as some kind of snowflake entitlement thing but that school is there for the purpose of providing education to kids living in that area. He is entitled to enrol there despite the headmaster's comment of 'it's up to parents whether or not they would like to send their boys to Grammar' which shows he thinks the school is something other than a govt provider of education.
As pointed out by the judge in that other case as well this issue comes into the area of the Bill of Rights. That judge wasn't going to make a big Bill of Rights precedent call because he had another out for his decision but he certainly pointed out the anomaly between the MoE/School rules/Bill of Rights.I would also point out that the school may like their english teacher to point out the definition of the word reasonable to the rule makers and headmaster. If you can't provide a fair reason for a rule then how can you call it fair and reasonable?
As for @Baron-Silas-Greenback s comments about jobs and bosses and to knowing the full picture, well isn't this the correct thing to do? Ask for the reasons so that you either educate yourself and accept the position or highlight a better way? It's how I would expect employees to act and good employers I have had have acted exactly like that. Happy to explain reasons even if they may ask you to just do it first and they will explain or discuss later. Last thing I'd want is a company full of accepting unquestioning employees.
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I have lived in the grammar zone for most of the last 20 years and regardless of whether their kids are suited to the school or not parents crawl over broken glass to rent the kind of tiny flat this lady said she lets just so their sons can go to grammar. This feels like a beat up, the kid is 11 so at least two years away from even attending high school. This is not about education, mummy's got an axe to grind
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@Crucial said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
As for @Baron-Silas-Greenback s comments about jobs and bosses and to knowing the full picture, well isn't this the correct thing to do? Ask for the reasons so that you either educate yourself and accept the position or highlight a better way? It's how I would expect employees to act and good employers I have had have acted exactly like that. Happy to explain reasons even if they may ask you to just do it first and they will explain or discuss later. Last thing I'd want is a company full of accepting unquestioning employees.
I am not sure if you are being serious about all employees having the full picture. Can you name a company that does that?
And no actually, most companies don't need a majority of people to be asking a boss to explain and justify themselves.
You seem to be confusing the micro with the macro, everyone can ask questions, they might even get answers, but they will also get a reputation. That reputation might be a good one, or more likely it will be of an uppity arrogant little gob shite who wastes your time asking questions that are not needed for the company to move forward.
But this is all getting slightly off the point. And that is an important lesson for everyone to learn that there are rules, sometimes you think those rules suck.. and there consequences for the choices you make about those rules.
Anyone who has ever had any real job experience learns that there are times it is good to be a squeaky wheel.. and there are even more times it is not good. I have a hunch this kid is being raised to be a squeaky wheel more often than not. -
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I have lived in the grammar zone for most of the last 20 years and regardless of whether their kids are suited to the school or not parents crawl over broken glass to rent the kind of tiny flat this lady said she lets just so their sons can go to grammar. This feels like a beat up, the kid is 11 so at least two years away from even attending high school. This is not about education, mummy's got an axe to grind
and the grand ma.
Like I said before inter generational attitude of 'fuck those who make up rules'
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@Nepia said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Crucial People may not agree with it but a school can set their own standards and if a student wants to go there then they know that going in.
Sure they can. But what's the point of making rules that serve no purpose other than to make people groom a particular way? Uniforms I can see the point of. Hairstyles, not so much. When you're not at school you don't have to wear the uniform, but you still have the hair the school said you have to have. And for what?
As for change in society - there are a number of schools in Auckland where she can send her kid which will allow him to have his hair long.
True. But this one is his local school. The one our taxes pay to take him.
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Considering some of the haircuts at my sons' school I can kind of understand why they have standards in place elsewhere. Some of them are appalling. No rats tails thank God, but plenty of buzz cut around the side with fringe down to chin. My son walks to school with a kid who uses one of those devices to straighten out his fringe every morning. That's after he's washed and shampooed it. It looks farking ridiculous.
Things sure have changed. I remember at school photos that not a single kid had a comb, let alone gel or whatever other shit they put in their hair these days. Then again that was in the middle of grunge and half the kids wore flannos on plain clothes day.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel hah that reminds me of the first time I went to a gym in the UK. Used to seeing one ratty old iron and ironing board in the gents locker room, i jumped in the men's locker room over here and had to double check i was in the right place after i was confronted with a long stand up dressing table type scenario with multiple mirrors, lights and hair dryers.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I have lived in the grammar zone for most of the last 20 years and regardless of whether their kids are suited to the school or not parents crawl over broken glass to rent the kind of tiny flat this lady said she lets just so their sons can go to grammar. This feels like a beat up, the kid is 11 so at least two years away from even attending high school. This is not about education, mummy's got an axe to grind
and the grand ma.
Like I said before inter generational attitude of 'fuck those who make up rules'
and that's a bad thing? I thought that's exactly how society progresses.
Sure, change demands must be debated and dismissed if shown to be not for the overall good but they should not just be dismissed out of hand by saying 'them's the rules, suck it up'
I agree with you about the squeaky wheel thing, I never meant anything other than questioning the right things at the right times. In this case I think they are doing just that. They are questioning the fairness and reasonableness of a rule that is forcing them to move house to get an education.
Yes, she has an axe to grind with the whole grandfather thing but somewhere along the line this type of school rule will get challenged against the Bill of Rights and I think the schools will findthey are on the losing side. It is a matter of time before someone shouts long enough and hard enough.
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@Crucial said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I have lived in the grammar zone for most of the last 20 years and regardless of whether their kids are suited to the school or not parents crawl over broken glass to rent the kind of tiny flat this lady said she lets just so their sons can go to grammar. This feels like a beat up, the kid is 11 so at least two years away from even attending high school. This is not about education, mummy's got an axe to grind
and the grand ma.
Like I said before inter generational attitude of 'fuck those who make up rules'
and that's a bad thing? I thought that's exactly how society progresses.
Sure, change demands must be debated and dismissed if shown to be not for the overall good but they should not just be dismissed out of hand by saying 'them's the rules, suck it up'
I agree with you about the squeaky wheel thing, I never meant anything other than questioning the right things at the right times. In this case I think they are doing just that. They are questioning the fairness and reasonableness of a rule that is forcing them to move house to get an education.
Yes, she has an axe to grind with the whole grandfather thing but somewhere along the line this type of school rule will get challenged against the Bill of Rights and I think the schools will findthey are on the losing side. It is a matter of time before someone shouts long enough and hard enough.
Christ on a bike, it's just his haircut not his skin colour, gender or sexuality. The school has standards for the appearance of its students and obviously considers this to be important. That might be old fashioned and strict, but those are the rules and every one knows them before they enrol there.
At any rate, the kid needs a bloody haircut. He looks like farking Maria Sharapova.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Crucial said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I have lived in the grammar zone for most of the last 20 years and regardless of whether their kids are suited to the school or not parents crawl over broken glass to rent the kind of tiny flat this lady said she lets just so their sons can go to grammar. This feels like a beat up, the kid is 11 so at least two years away from even attending high school. This is not about education, mummy's got an axe to grind
and the grand ma.
Like I said before inter generational attitude of 'fuck those who make up rules'
and that's a bad thing? I thought that's exactly how society progresses.
Sure, change demands must be debated and dismissed if shown to be not for the overall good but they should not just be dismissed out of hand by saying 'them's the rules, suck it up'
I agree with you about the squeaky wheel thing, I never meant anything other than questioning the right things at the right times. In this case I think they are doing just that. They are questioning the fairness and reasonableness of a rule that is forcing them to move house to get an education.
Yes, she has an axe to grind with the whole grandfather thing but somewhere along the line this type of school rule will get challenged against the Bill of Rights and I think the schools will findthey are on the losing side. It is a matter of time before someone shouts long enough and hard enough.
Christ on a bike, it's just his haircut not his skin colour, gender or sexuality. The school has standards for the appearance of its students and obviously considers this to be important. That might be old fashioned and strict, but those are the rules and every one knows them before they enrol there.
At any rate, the kid needs a bloody haircut. He looks like farking Maria Sharapova.
I bet the dirty scamp isn't even vaccinated.....
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@Crucial said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I have lived in the grammar zone for most of the last 20 years and regardless of whether their kids are suited to the school or not parents crawl over broken glass to rent the kind of tiny flat this lady said she lets just so their sons can go to grammar. This feels like a beat up, the kid is 11 so at least two years away from even attending high school. This is not about education, mummy's got an axe to grind
and the grand ma.
Like I said before inter generational attitude of 'fuck those who make up rules'
and that's a bad thing? I thought that's exactly how society progresses.
Sure, change demands must be debated and dismissed if shown to be not for the overall good but they should not just be dismissed out of hand by saying 'them's the rules, suck it up'
I agree with you about the squeaky wheel thing, I never meant anything other than questioning the right things at the right times. In this case I think they are doing just that. They are questioning the fairness and reasonableness of a rule that is forcing them to move house to get an education.
Yes, she has an axe to grind with the whole grandfather thing but somewhere along the line this type of school rule will get challenged against the Bill of Rights and I think the schools will findthey are on the losing side. It is a matter of time before someone shouts long enough and hard enough.
It is to complex to say if that is a bad thing or a good thing, I think if it leads you to the point there you parade a minor on the national media because he doesn't want a haircut, yeah it is a bad thing.
Society doesnt progress because children dont want haircuts.
And you make an interesting assumption on the Bill of Rights. I disagree with it. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Crucial said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I have lived in the grammar zone for most of the last 20 years and regardless of whether their kids are suited to the school or not parents crawl over broken glass to rent the kind of tiny flat this lady said she lets just so their sons can go to grammar. This feels like a beat up, the kid is 11 so at least two years away from even attending high school. This is not about education, mummy's got an axe to grind
and the grand ma.
Like I said before inter generational attitude of 'fuck those who make up rules'
and that's a bad thing? I thought that's exactly how society progresses.
Sure, change demands must be debated and dismissed if shown to be not for the overall good but they should not just be dismissed out of hand by saying 'them's the rules, suck it up'
I agree with you about the squeaky wheel thing, I never meant anything other than questioning the right things at the right times. In this case I think they are doing just that. They are questioning the fairness and reasonableness of a rule that is forcing them to move house to get an education.
Yes, she has an axe to grind with the whole grandfather thing but somewhere along the line this type of school rule will get challenged against the Bill of Rights and I think the schools will findthey are on the losing side. It is a matter of time before someone shouts long enough and hard enough.
It is to complex to say if that is a bad thing or a good thing, I think if it leads you to the point there you parade a minor on the national media because he doesn't want a haircut, yeah it is a bad thing.
Society doesnt progress because children dont want haircuts.
And you make an interesting assumption on the Bill of Rights. I disagree with it.Which assumption? That rules regarding hair possibly being at odds to the BoRs or that someone will have a crack on that basis?
This is what the judge in that other case said..."Justice David Collins concluded that any school would need to give "very careful consideration" as to whether any hair rule would breach a student's rights to "autonomy, individual dignity and his rights to freedom of expression" affirmed by s14 of the Bill of Human Rights Act.
He didn't need to go there and make that ruling though because the school's wording wasn't clear on its rules.
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I guess if a kiddie fiddler has rights about wearing a rug, a boy has the right to look like a girl.
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@Crucial said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Crucial said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I have lived in the grammar zone for most of the last 20 years and regardless of whether their kids are suited to the school or not parents crawl over broken glass to rent the kind of tiny flat this lady said she lets just so their sons can go to grammar. This feels like a beat up, the kid is 11 so at least two years away from even attending high school. This is not about education, mummy's got an axe to grind
and the grand ma.
Like I said before inter generational attitude of 'fuck those who make up rules'
and that's a bad thing? I thought that's exactly how society progresses.
Sure, change demands must be debated and dismissed if shown to be not for the overall good but they should not just be dismissed out of hand by saying 'them's the rules, suck it up'
I agree with you about the squeaky wheel thing, I never meant anything other than questioning the right things at the right times. In this case I think they are doing just that. They are questioning the fairness and reasonableness of a rule that is forcing them to move house to get an education.
Yes, she has an axe to grind with the whole grandfather thing but somewhere along the line this type of school rule will get challenged against the Bill of Rights and I think the schools will findthey are on the losing side. It is a matter of time before someone shouts long enough and hard enough.
It is to complex to say if that is a bad thing or a good thing, I think if it leads you to the point there you parade a minor on the national media because he doesn't want a haircut, yeah it is a bad thing.
Society doesnt progress because children dont want haircuts.
And you make an interesting assumption on the Bill of Rights. I disagree with it.Which assumption? That rules regarding hair possibly being at odds to the BoRs or that someone will have a crack on that basis?
This is what the judge in that other case said..."Justice David Collins concluded that any school would need to give "very careful consideration" as to whether any hair rule would breach a student's rights to "autonomy, individual dignity and his rights to freedom of expression" affirmed by s14 of the Bill of Human Rights Act.
He didn't need to go there and make that ruling though because the school's wording wasn't clear on its rules.
Your assumption that the school would be on the losing side.
" will get challenged against the Bill of Rights and I think the schools will findthey are on the losing side"
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@jegga said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Has Hillary Barry given us her thoughts on the hair debate yet?
She was pissed off that dog got shot cos being an expert she woulda handled it so much better obviously. I think Dame Susan Devoy could be the Hilary Barry of 2017. She has to stick her mush in everything and create a race war when there isn't one.
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