Wayne Smith retiring from All Blacks roles
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@antipodean said in Wayne Smith retiring from All Blacks roles:
He's burned those bridges. Fuck him.
How did he burn any bridges? He went as far as he could NZ without attempting to become an All Black in his mid 40s thus qualifying for a Super Rugby gig.
Penney would be opened back to NZ rugby I believe.
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@rotated said in Wayne Smith retiring from All Blacks roles:
@antipodean said in Wayne Smith retiring from All Blacks roles:
He's burned those bridges. Fuck him.
How did he burn any bridges? He went as far as he could NZ without attempting to become an All Black in his mid 40s thus qualifying for a Super Rugby gig.
Penney would be opened back to NZ rugby I believe.
We are both talking about Deans, yeah?
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@antipodean said in Wayne Smith retiring from All Blacks roles:
Foster has been part of an unbelievably successful All Blacks team. Wayne Smith thinks highly of him.
yeeeaaa, I'm going to go ahead and assume you have completely misread that tone of that post
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Key coaches Foster and Cron recommit through to the 2019 Rugby World Cup
http://www.allblacks.com/News/30818/key-coaches-foster-and-cron-recommit-through-to-2019
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when I heard on the radio this morning Foster has been on the AB panel since 2012 I couldn't quite believe it...he is supposed to be shit, but we aren't!
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@taniwharugby said in Wayne Smith retiring from All Blacks roles:
when I heard on the radio this morning Foster has been on the AB panel since 2012 I couldn't quite believe it...he is supposed to be shit, but we aren't!
He's not lead the panel though
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@canefan had Hansen?
I think with the systems they have in place, and the fact he would have been working with Smith for 5 years and under Hansen for 7 years by then, don't think it would be an issue, pretty sure if he was rubbish, you'd get exposed in that environment.
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While it's easy to pile on Foster for his time at the Chiefs - it must remembered he was the first Chiefs coach to reach the semi finals in 2004 and then had the Chiefs as the best NZ team in 2009 reaching the Super rugby final. The years he coached the Chiefs the competition was much more competitive and playoff spots were fewer.
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@KiwiMurph said in Wayne Smith retiring from All Blacks roles:
While it's easy to pile on Foster for his time at the Chiefs - it must remembered he was the first Chiefs coach to reach the semi finals in 2004 and then had the Chiefs as the best NZ team in 2009 reaching the Super rugby final. The years he coached the Chiefs the competition was much more competitive and playoff spots were fewer.
2004 - 4th
2005 - 6th
2006 - 7th
2007 - 6th
2008 - 7th
2009 - 2nd
2010 - 11th
2011 - 10thRennie:
2012 - 1st
2013 - 1st
2014 - 5th
2015 - 5th
2016 - 4th
2017 - currently 3rd based on points rather than the current stupid system.
playoffs every year.it's not a pile-on, it's just facts. foster's results at the chiefs were substandard, and shown to be that by rennie's subsequent success.
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@reprobate said in Wayne Smith retiring from All Blacks roles:
@KiwiMurph said in Wayne Smith retiring from All Blacks roles:
While it's easy to pile on Foster for his time at the Chiefs - it must remembered he was the first Chiefs coach to reach the semi finals in 2004 and then had the Chiefs as the best NZ team in 2009 reaching the Super rugby final. The years he coached the Chiefs the competition was much more competitive and playoff spots were fewer.
2004 - 4th
2005 - 6th
2006 - 7th
2007 - 6th
2008 - 7th
2009 - 2nd
2010 - 11th
2011 - 10thRennie:
2012 - 1st
2013 - 1st
2014 - 5th
2015 - 5th
2016 - 4th
2017 - currently 3rd based on points rather than the current stupid system.
playoffs every year.it's not a pile-on, it's just facts. foster's results at the chiefs were substandard, and shown to be that by rennie's subsequent success.
It's irrelevent now as he has learnt the AB way of doing things and Hansen has proved that a smooth transition from a successful coach onto someone in the setup allows minimal disruption. In fact, I would say it improved the team
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For my sins, I listened to his interview with Veitch where he endorsed Foster. Yes, he was asked a direct question and I think it would have been awkward for him to not offer at least some support. However, Smith went above and beyond in explaining his endorsement of Foster. While it's hard to fathom Ian Foster as All Blacks coach, as a lot of other people have suggested, if it's good enough for Smith it's good enough for me.
I would have been equally concerned about Hansen being touted as head coach in 2009 when our lineout was kak and he was fighting with the media.
I seriously can't stand Veitch and his fake laugh and matey interviews. I can't understand how he seems to be the interviewer of choice for our best sports people.
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The role of a Super Rugby coach 10 years ago and the role that Hansen has now are almost completely different - aside from sitting in the press box. Hansen is essentially a director of rugby and to my knowledge he doesn't have a direct technical responsibility in the team (attack/defense/backs/forwards/set piece). Henry used to have one responsibility as well as overseeing the operation.
Foster for most of his time at the Chiefs was just him and Craig Stevenson and a set piece coach. In that set up a bulk of the technical coaching responsibility fell on Foster. Super coaching staffs have expanded now obviously - but there is a key difference.
I have two concerns if Foster becomes coach.
Not at all convinced that he will be able to command the same quality of assistant coaches that Henry and Hansen were. Are some of the best technical minds in the game willing to coach under Foster's management? Smith was an oddity in that he had limited personal ambition and ego, I don't know if there are others like that out there.
The continuity thing may be his achilles heel. He would have 8 years experience in the AB set up, but it's a very different 8 years to the apprenticeship that Hansen had. If all goes to plan Foster may well get the reigns having never coached through a period of adversity or a rebuilding period. Hansen was there when they gutted the place and drew up the blueprints in 2004 and coached through the 2007 debacle. In press conferences he almost always references those periods (as well as his Welsh tenure and 2008/9) as being the learning periods in his coaching career.
If things go sideways in year 1 of Foster's tenure I'm not sure the 8 years riding shotgun prepares him any better than an outsider. I almost think I'd rather a coach with international pedigree in that situation.
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@rotated Interesting point. That said, we're going to have to temper our expectations. We'll probably never see a coaching trio the level of Henry, Hansen and Smith ever again. We're unlikely to even get a coach of Smith's ilk being happy as an assistant coach. Hell, I can't even imagine Cron sticking around after 2019.
One thing Foster would have learned that an outsider won't have is the importance of culture in retaining All Blacks. In an environment where all your players can earn more somewhere else, the culture and the belief that the environment is the place where they can best develop is the point of difference. It sounds straight forward, but there are many coaches before Henry that didn't get that.
EDIT. Good point about coaching through adversity. Foster has certainly had his fair share, but it's the coming through the other side part he may not have experienced.
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@reprobate said in Wayne Smith retiring from All Blacks roles:
@Hooroo quite possibly no longer relevant, but pretending it didn't happen is a different thing.
As I say it is irrelevant now. Weak headed people will dwell on it like it actually matters now
