-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Another attack in London:
@JC said in Another attack in London:
For me the most interesting thing re the Iran attack on parliament was that several of the male attackers disguised themselves in chadors so that security would think they were women.
Given the administration's history of zealous enforcement of women wearing clothes that are by definition anonymous, I wonder if they are now trying to figure out the conundrum of woman covering themselves while simultaneously being recognisable. Sounds like a puzzle worthy of an Ayatollah.
God will help them.
Jebus?
-
A VAN has reportedly mown down pedestrians near London’s Finsbury Park Mosque. A massive police response is underway.
Metropolitan Police say they are attending a ‘major incident’ at Seven Sisters Road, with responders including riot vans, armed personnel and a helicopter.
Initial reports suggest more than 10 people have been hit.
-
The location indicates an anti Islam attack?
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Another attack in London:
The location indicates an anti Islam attack?
I'd say so. Initial reports were it sped up to hit people leaving the mosque. So it looks like some arsehole has decided to take out law abiding Muslims.
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback yeah you would think so, go rent a van to run down some Muslims returning from Prayer.
-
For fuck sakes, what an absolute mess.
This is where we are at now. We have this incredibly polarizing debate from people moving further to the left or further to the right, and none of them have the slightest idea what they are talking about. If this piece of scum thought that killing a bunch of innocent Muslims was going to do anything but make things worse then he's beyond fucking stupid.
Instead of people educating themselves on Islam, and what strain of Islam leads to terrorism, they are now only going to be even more entrenched in their views. No doubt people on the left will be screaming about right-wing extremism being the cause of this, and they'd be right, but they're equally as culpable in creating the environment we have now.
I made the mistake of going on Twitter last night, and the amount of completely retarded tweets from both sides of the spectrum getting 10s of thousands of likes/re-tweets made me despair.
I've said it before, numerous times - the majority of the worlds population is completely fucking retarded. If this moron had even taken 15 minutes to learn about the different types of Islam then he'd know full well his "revenge attack" would be nothing of the sort, because if you want to take revenge then you have to attack the perpetrators.
-
@Rembrandt said in Another attack in London:
God awful but totally unsurprising. I bet there is many a journalist waiting with baited breath as to the ethnicity of the driver. Either way things are going to be getting increasingly worse.
Yes, unfortunately not surprising in the least. The only surprising thing is that it's taken this long.
I suspect Tommy Robinson will be in police custody sometime soon.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel yep no doubt. I see media are already circling in on him. He predicted this would happen and it has. Much easier to shoot the messenger than try and understand the message.
Really can't see how things are going to improve over there, if it is found to be a white British national that did this it would be very short odds on another islamist attack in response.
-
@No-Quarter said in Another attack in London:
I've said it before, numerous times - the majority of the worlds population is completely fucking retarded.
I simply can't upvote that enough.
-
Looks like the Mosque attacked has previous links to terrorism, and was shut down in 2003 with the then Imam Abu Hamza al-Masri arrested and charged with offences for inciting violence and racial hatred, currently serving a life sentence after being extradited to the States. It was reopened in 2005 with the help of the Muslim Association of Britain and a new board of trustees appointed.
So the Mosque probably wasn't chosen at random. As you say @Rembrandt pretty hard to see how things are going to improve from here.
-
Terrorist fucks.
Here's a quote about some branches of Islam from another games board I frequent (mostly atheists, amusingly, but someone asked about Islam, so a Muslim replied):
The basic difference between sunni and shia is over a succession dispute (though it had some theological issues that in part informed and in part were informed by that succession dispute) after Muhammed's death leadership of the muslim community passed to his father-in-law Abu Bakr, Ali, Muhammed's son-in-law (married to his Daughter Fatima) had some problems with that (claiming he had been promised the leadership) this got worse in the following elections (one of the big issues was whether or not the caliphate should be heridatery (Ali's position) or elective). this lead to a civil war, Ali (who had eventually become Caliph) was assassinated, his sons killed in battle.
This succession might seem a fairly minor personal issue, but it also has some theological ones, namely in how exactly to derive and interpret islamic law. All muslims accept the Qu'ran (the revealed word of God) and the sunnah (the life of the Prophet as an example, that's where "sunni" comes from, but to confuse matters shi'ites (which comes from a word meaning "party", as in "Ali's party") have their own sunnah. Both Shi'ites and sunnis collect the sunnah in hadiths (which are basically written down stories about the prophet with a kind of genealogy "X told Y who told Z who heard it from the Prophet himself") as well as interpretation and analogy. (eg. the qu'ran forbids wine, does that also apply to other alcoholic beverages? To other drugs? To some but not to others? Depending on the particular school of law that might be interpreted differently)
Now, shi'ites see the bloodline of the Prophet as itself having a kind of spiritual power, passed down through the descendants of Ali. (who are as mentioned, also descendants of the prophet, through his daughter) this in some ways means that theologically shi'ites are closer to catholics (with a living spiritual tradition) and the sunnis closer to protestants (with a more scripture-centered worldview) so in addition to the stuff attributed to Muhammed the shi'ites also take into account stuff said and done by Ali and his descendants (though not to the same extent ofc.) this is one of the reason sunnis often claim shi'ites are idolatrous.
Thing is though, Ali's descendants themselves are a part of history, depending on which shi'ite group you belong to, they count a different number of imams (imam means basically "prayer leader" and is confusing because depending on context it can either mean just the guy leading the prayer at your mosque or the supreme prayer leader for all muslims... Kind of like referring both to the Pope and your local priest as "Father") the biggest group are the twelvers (the official sect in Iran) which count down to twelve imams before the final one, Al-Mahdi, dissapears. (Twelvers clame that he merely went into hiding, "occultation" and is still guiding the priesthood (and can thus provide "new" information to make legal decisions on) and is expected to return at the end of days) the second largest (but much smaller) group is the Ismailis, (the split can be traced back to a pair of brothers) their main political effect in history is forming the nominal basis of the Fatimid Caliphate of Egypt, they have a bunch of smaller splinter-groups, some who still claim to have a living imam hanging around, this is one of them.
Both sunnis and shi'ites split further in confusing ways. As a generalization shi'ites has the framework for a personal charismatic "divine leader" style more than the sunnis do (though both crop up, and there's a lot of cross-pollination on the fringes) and sometimes it goes off into points where it's arguably if they're considered muslims any more (like the Druze or Ahmadi, both splinter-groups claiming to follow a figure or another)
"Sufism" is a term that you'll often find, but it's hard to define, it's not really a denomination per se (although there are distinctly sufi denominations) but a way of practicing islam, it crosses over with both sunni, shi'ite and sometimes becomes it's own thing entirely, basically the idea is to focus on mysticism and union with God rather than dry legal reasoning (though they do that too) Sufism has historically been popular especially in border regions with many adherents of other religions (like Anatolia, West Africa, or India) and as such there's a great deal of syncretism (which more orthodox muslims often frown on)
There's also a third group, the Ibadis that also spawned out early, but they're fairly mariginal outside of Oman.
Shia islam has a lot of small splinter sects often centered on a religious leader (often now dead) the big exception to this is Iran (though that too was caused by a charismatic religious and military leader) where a pretty (for islam) structured hierarchy of clergy has developed over the last 500 years or so. Twelver islam is often tied up with (from all sides) iranian/persian nationalism.
In the sunni world there evolved several different schools of law (in the traditional islamic world, jurisprudence and theology are highly onnected) that often got fairly elaborate and complicated as they had to deal with new situations and such. This also predictably spawned "reform" movements, either to further adapt the legal code or to return to the "original, pure" version of islam, the most famous of the latter are the salafis: dominant (but not the majority) in Saudi Arabia and a very strict sect, they mostly reject the jurisprudence of the traditional sunni schools (and are therefore sometimes seen as heretical by mainline sunnis) it's sometimes called "Wahhabism" after it's founder, but the members themselves consider this derogatory. A lot of focus in salafism is purging the community of "unislamic" institutions (veneration of saints, festivals, insufficiently fundamentalist legal judgements, etc.) in this they're very similar to the reformation-era puritans. Some (but not all) salafis encourage armed violence in order to reach their goals, and groups like Al-Qaeda, ISIS, etc. are theoretically at least salafi organizations. In addition to terrorism they also tends to have an outsized influence because the Saudis sponsor them (building mosques, providing salafi-trained legal scholars, etc.) even outside Saudi Arabia.
-
I miss childhood when it was all just baddies vs goodies.
This guy did some interviews during the UK against hate march in Manchester a week back. Fascinating how the pro-antifa protestors really have more in common with those they are protesting against but are just so indoctrinated they can't see the woods from the trees. -
@Rembrandt most of those people are just mouthpieces for an ideology they don't understand. They genuinely believe finding people they disagree with and waving signs at them is the way to change society - despite the fact they have absolutely no understanding of the processes at play which have created the society they all benefit from living in.
Want to make society and the world better? Fucking educate yourself and make yourself a better person. Stop trying to tell other people how morally superior you are when you haven't done shit to improve anything.
-
@Donsteppa said in Another attack in London:
That approach would be savaged by the left.
Targeting people based on a risk profile??? Racist Islamophobes!!!!!
Another attack in London