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So you have a few Russians trying (and mostly failing) to stir up shit on social media vs 2 billion buck war chest and an opponent getting almost wall-to-wall negative coverage.
This whole thing is fucking absurd. How much money have they spent on this investigation?
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@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
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@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
It all seems pretty ambiguous to me. In the age of social media, all countries are influencing other countries elections. Well nobody gave a shit about the NZ election except for us, but when it comes to the US the whole world goes along for the ride.
How do you define "trying to influence an election"? If all they're talking about is social media, that's going to be bloody difficult to stop.
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@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Depends on scale surely? Scale of inteference and scale of investigation.
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@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
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I think I’ll have other plans when she comes to town .
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11997577
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@rembrandt said in US Politics:
I tried to influence the UK election, with my passionately clever facebook posts and witty arguments.
not sure if it helped or hindered but Labour didn't get in so I'll take it as a win.
I was tempted to join the Uk Labour Party for the sole purpose of voting for Corbyn . Glad I didn’t because Mays ineptitude would have made me feel very silly.
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@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Depends on scale surely? Scale of inteference and scale of investigation.
I concur.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
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@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
I don't know. I think I'd be more pissed off about millions of pounds in public money being spent on determining that the Russians played silly buggers on social media. If it was talk of hacking voting machines or channelling massive amounts of cash into the hands of certain candidates or parties then fair enough. But as far as I'm aware, there have never been any claims of this actually occurring.
Are there actually specific terms of reference for this investigation?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
I don't know. I think I'd be more pissed off about millions of pounds in public money being spent on determining that the Russians played silly buggers on social media. If it was talk of hacking voting machines or channelling massive amounts of cash into the hands of certain candidates or parties then fair enough. But as far as I'm aware, there have never been any claims of this actually occurring.
Are there actually specific terms of reference for this investigation?
I can't get worked up about the wasting of public money anymore, if it doesn't get spent on this it will get spent on some other waste product. I once queried with a mate that worked for the county council why there had been a rash of stupid road "improvements". You know the sort of things, bike lanes that run for 30m and up up nowhere, that sort of thing. His answer? "It's the end of the financial year, if they don't spend their budget they loose it and risk having it cut the following year".
I haven't seen anything published about terms of reference for this investigation, but I haven't really looked.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
I don't know. I think I'd be more pissed off about millions of pounds in public money being spent on determining that the Russians played silly buggers on social media. If it was talk of hacking voting machines or channelling massive amounts of cash into the hands of certain candidates or parties then fair enough. But as far as I'm aware, there have never been any claims of this actually occurring.
Are there actually specific terms of reference for this investigation?
I think you need to view it in the light of whatever was being done, it was being done in an organised manner by a foreign (unfriendly) power with a view to disrupt or influence the democratic system the US is trying to uphold. Simple as that.
Doesn't matter if they changed sides or changed results or were even successful in any way. It is that they were doing it.
The offshoot of this investigation (where the extent of influence is being looked at) is whether anybody within the US system knowingly brought into the disruption in an attempt to help themselves.
Trump has always tried to paint the picture that unless he deliberately planned stuff alongside the Russians then he did nothing wrong. That isn't the case.
As I have said before, I don't think that Trump himself directed anything but others in his campaign did and have tried to keep it under wraps. Dumb Donny Jnr is the most likely screwup and where Trump himself will possibly cop it is from trying to protect his son from something that he thought was minor and could be brushed away. -
@crucial said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
I don't know. I think I'd be more pissed off about millions of pounds in public money being spent on determining that the Russians played silly buggers on social media. If it was talk of hacking voting machines or channelling massive amounts of cash into the hands of certain candidates or parties then fair enough. But as far as I'm aware, there have never been any claims of this actually occurring.
Are there actually specific terms of reference for this investigation?
I think you need to view it in the light of whatever was being done, it was being done in an organised manner by a foreign (unfriendly) power with a view to disrupt or influence the democratic system the US is trying to uphold. Simple as that.
Doesn't matter if they changed sides or changed results or were even successful in any way. It is that they were doing it.
The offshoot of this investigation (where the extent of influence is being looked at) is whether anybody within the US system knowingly brought into the disruption in an attempt to help themselves.
Trump has always tried to paint the picture that unless he deliberately planned stuff alongside the Russians then he did nothing wrong. That isn't the case.
As I have said before, I don't think that Trump himself directed anything but others in his campaign did and have tried to keep it under wraps. Dumb Donny Jnr is the most likely screwup and where Trump himself will possibly cop it is from trying to protect his son from something that he thought was minor and could be brushed away.It's very difficult to know whether you actually give a shit about Russian involvement or are still living in hope that the investigation will find something that will bring down Trump.
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@crucial said in US Politics:
As I have said before, I don't think that Trump himself directed anything but others in his campaign did and have tried to keep it under wraps. Dumb Donny Jnr is the most likely screwup and where Trump himself will possibly cop it is from trying to protect his son from something that he thought was minor and could be brushed away.
Yeah that is just a pipe dream form people who are desperate for a way to redo the 2016 election.
Do you have any actual evidence of Collusion from someone in Trumps team? Better yet any evidence of collusion more substantial than the Democrats and Steele working directly with Russians? -
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@crucial said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
I don't know. I think I'd be more pissed off about millions of pounds in public money being spent on determining that the Russians played silly buggers on social media. If it was talk of hacking voting machines or channelling massive amounts of cash into the hands of certain candidates or parties then fair enough. But as far as I'm aware, there have never been any claims of this actually occurring.
Are there actually specific terms of reference for this investigation?
I think you need to view it in the light of whatever was being done, it was being done in an organised manner by a foreign (unfriendly) power with a view to disrupt or influence the democratic system the US is trying to uphold. Simple as that.
Doesn't matter if they changed sides or changed results or were even successful in any way. It is that they were doing it.
The offshoot of this investigation (where the extent of influence is being looked at) is whether anybody within the US system knowingly brought into the disruption in an attempt to help themselves.
Trump has always tried to paint the picture that unless he deliberately planned stuff alongside the Russians then he did nothing wrong. That isn't the case.
As I have said before, I don't think that Trump himself directed anything but others in his campaign did and have tried to keep it under wraps. Dumb Donny Jnr is the most likely screwup and where Trump himself will possibly cop it is from trying to protect his son from something that he thought was minor and could be brushed away.It's very difficult to know whether you actually give a shit about Russian involvement or are still living in hope that the investigation will find something that will bring down Trump.
I do think he should give a shit about Russian interference and no, I'm not 'living in hope' of anything, just stating my opinion. I'm not trying to win a prize here.
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@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
@crucial said in US Politics:
As I have said before, I don't think that Trump himself directed anything but others in his campaign did and have tried to keep it under wraps. Dumb Donny Jnr is the most likely screwup and where Trump himself will possibly cop it is from trying to protect his son from something that he thought was minor and could be brushed away.
Yeah that is just a pipe dream form people who are desperate for a way to redo the 2016 election.
Do you have any actual evidence of Collusion from someone in Trumps team? Better yet any evidence of collusion more substantial than the Democrats and Steele working directly with Russians?No, I don't. But I'm not an investigator in what is an ongoing investigation and not party to all they know.
As I explained, to say only a narrow definition of collusion is wrongdoing is misleading. That isn't what the investigation is.
The questions are- was there interference from a foreign power?
- did anyone from any campaign get involved with that interference?
- basically, was everything done according to the laws of the country.
Quite simple to understand the purpose and complicated to unravel, especially given the propensity of politicians and their sidekicks to tell lies and omit truths.
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@crucial said in US Politics:
@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
@crucial said in US Politics:
As I have said before, I don't think that Trump himself directed anything but others in his campaign did and have tried to keep it under wraps. Dumb Donny Jnr is the most likely screwup and where Trump himself will possibly cop it is from trying to protect his son from something that he thought was minor and could be brushed away.
Yeah that is just a pipe dream form people who are desperate for a way to redo the 2016 election.
Do you have any actual evidence of Collusion from someone in Trumps team? Better yet any evidence of collusion more substantial than the Democrats and Steele working directly with Russians?No, I don't. But I'm not an investigator in what is an ongoing investigation and not party to all they know.
As I explained, to say only a narrow definition of collusion is wrongdoing is misleading. That isn't what the investigation is.
The questions are- was there interference from a foreign power?
- did anyone from any campaign get involved with that interference?
- basically, was everything done according to the laws of the country.
Quite simple to understand the purpose and complicated to unravel, especially given the propensity of politicians and their sidekicks to tell lies and omit truths.
We already know the answers to all your questions. Steele and the Democrats answered them..
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@crucial said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@crucial said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
I don't know. I think I'd be more pissed off about millions of pounds in public money being spent on determining that the Russians played silly buggers on social media. If it was talk of hacking voting machines or channelling massive amounts of cash into the hands of certain candidates or parties then fair enough. But as far as I'm aware, there have never been any claims of this actually occurring.
Are there actually specific terms of reference for this investigation?
I think you need to view it in the light of whatever was being done, it was being done in an organised manner by a foreign (unfriendly) power with a view to disrupt or influence the democratic system the US is trying to uphold. Simple as that.
Doesn't matter if they changed sides or changed results or were even successful in any way. It is that they were doing it.
The offshoot of this investigation (where the extent of influence is being looked at) is whether anybody within the US system knowingly brought into the disruption in an attempt to help themselves.
Trump has always tried to paint the picture that unless he deliberately planned stuff alongside the Russians then he did nothing wrong. That isn't the case.
As I have said before, I don't think that Trump himself directed anything but others in his campaign did and have tried to keep it under wraps. Dumb Donny Jnr is the most likely screwup and where Trump himself will possibly cop it is from trying to protect his son from something that he thought was minor and could be brushed away.It's very difficult to know whether you actually give a shit about Russian involvement or are still living in hope that the investigation will find something that will bring down Trump.
I do think he should give a shit about Russian interference and no, I'm not 'living in hope' of anything, just stating my opinion. I'm not trying to win a prize here.
I'm sure he does give a shit about Russian interference, but he's perfectly entitled to be pissed off that his entire presidency is being called into question based on nothing but a smear campaign from the losing side. He is also right to be suspicious of the investigation. Again I go back to terms of reference. Are they just investigating foreign influence or investigating him or anyone or anything with even the most tenuous link to him?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@crucial said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@crucial said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
I don't know. I think I'd be more pissed off about millions of pounds in public money being spent on determining that the Russians played silly buggers on social media. If it was talk of hacking voting machines or channelling massive amounts of cash into the hands of certain candidates or parties then fair enough. But as far as I'm aware, there have never been any claims of this actually occurring.
Are there actually specific terms of reference for this investigation?
I think you need to view it in the light of whatever was being done, it was being done in an organised manner by a foreign (unfriendly) power with a view to disrupt or influence the democratic system the US is trying to uphold. Simple as that.
Doesn't matter if they changed sides or changed results or were even successful in any way. It is that they were doing it.
The offshoot of this investigation (where the extent of influence is being looked at) is whether anybody within the US system knowingly brought into the disruption in an attempt to help themselves.
Trump has always tried to paint the picture that unless he deliberately planned stuff alongside the Russians then he did nothing wrong. That isn't the case.
As I have said before, I don't think that Trump himself directed anything but others in his campaign did and have tried to keep it under wraps. Dumb Donny Jnr is the most likely screwup and where Trump himself will possibly cop it is from trying to protect his son from something that he thought was minor and could be brushed away.It's very difficult to know whether you actually give a shit about Russian involvement or are still living in hope that the investigation will find something that will bring down Trump.
I do think he should give a shit about Russian interference and no, I'm not 'living in hope' of anything, just stating my opinion. I'm not trying to win a prize here.
I'm sure he does give a shit about Russian interference, but he's perfectly entitled to be pissed off that his entire presidency is being called into question based on nothing but a smear campaign from the losing side. He is also right to be suspicious of the investigation. Again I go back to terms of reference. Are they just investigating foreign influence or investigating him or anyone or anything with even the most tenuous link to him?
He's given no indication he is pissed off with Russian interference. Apart from opinions by commentators his legitimacy isn't being called into question. That is a story of his own making consistent with still carrying on about the losing side over a year later.
I'm not talking about a smear campaign, I'm talking about the legitimate investigation which has provided its terms of reference numerous times even if the media and others kept trying to bring focus on Trump (because that is the bigger story).
Why is he right to be suspicious? No reason unless you believe his own paranoia.
Yes, it appears that the FBI used some of Steele's work to support their investigative needs and Steele was funded by anti-Trumpers. The also verified as fact those parts they used before continuing. Does it then matter what the origin is? If some dirtbag provided provable evidence on a murder are investigators meant to discard it because of the origin?
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