-
@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
I think you are putting an incredibly anti Trump slant on things based on conjecture and hopeful dreaming....
I can see how you might think that, but I'm honestly not anti-Trump on this. If you take my post as a reply to @Salacious-Crumb post which climbed straight into a pro-Trump spouting when I had not said anything at all about Trump, then you might see it as more of a refutation of his salient points rather than an anti-Trump stance. I agree that the investigation is about Russian interference and not directly collusion (however the investigation will be attempting to find any collusion from any side if it's there). If you review Mr Crumb's post you will see that he suggested that the proving of collusion between the Russians and the Trump campaign was "the whole purpose of the Mueller investigation in the first place". I was really only refuting some of the more unlikely points.
In regard to this investigation though I am happy to lay out what I feel is a likely outcome. I would be very surprised if there was not a whole lot more to come out regarding Russian interference, I also feel it is possible (note possible, not probable) that there was some contact between them and the Trump campaign but if so, more likely to be through naivety rather than intent. I feel this is possible because the campaign and early administration for that matter had the appearance of a rudderless ship.
-
@salacious-crumb said in US Politics:
If you’re a foreign national, say, a Kiwi, and you use Twitter or Facebook to post an opinion about American politics during an election campaign, ipso-facto, you are engaged in criminal activity, subverting, interfering and colluding against democracy. You have been warned. The FBI sayeth so. Get those extradition forms ready...
”Speaking out about American politics requires a foreign citizen to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act.”
You’ve been warned.
-
@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
Remember this Muller probe isn't about Trump it is about Russian meddling.
That is a common misconception, but at-most it’s only half-true. Mueller’s special investigation was two-pronged, and the first, as you say, Rooskie meddling, basically nobody denies, any more than they deny Israel or the UK or France or USA or any number of nations “meddle” in the elections of foreign nations. Nobody is seriously refuting any of that.
It’s the 2nd prong in Mueller’s special investigation that is the Giant Hoax portion, namely, that Vlad colluded with Trump to steal the election.
The bogus “collusion” accusation is what has been driving the entire “impeachment” narrative.
Some good background:
...and...
-
Being reported that Rooskies paid for four rallies. Three of them in Florida assembled 31 people. Combined. And the other was led by Michael Moore. How can people not laugh at this idiocy that the election was “stolen”? Especially when Hillary’s campaign war chest was 2 BILLION dollars??!!
Awesome question asked to John Podesta on Face The Nation this morning:
-
@salacious-crumb They can go fuck themselves
-
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@salacious-crumb They can go fuck themselves
You really need to define who “they” are. It is likely I will agree with you but I need to be sure
-
I saw an interesting question posed.
What is the actual difference between these Russians and Steele who was paid by the FBI and Democrats?
All foreign, all actively working to alter the election. -
So you have a few Russians trying (and mostly failing) to stir up shit on social media vs 2 billion buck war chest and an opponent getting almost wall-to-wall negative coverage.
This whole thing is fucking absurd. How much money have they spent on this investigation?
-
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
-
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
It all seems pretty ambiguous to me. In the age of social media, all countries are influencing other countries elections. Well nobody gave a shit about the NZ election except for us, but when it comes to the US the whole world goes along for the ride.
How do you define "trying to influence an election"? If all they're talking about is social media, that's going to be bloody difficult to stop.
-
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Depends on scale surely? Scale of inteference and scale of investigation.
-
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
-
I think I’ll have other plans when she comes to town .
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11997577
-
@rembrandt said in US Politics:
I tried to influence the UK election, with my passionately clever facebook posts and witty arguments.
not sure if it helped or hindered but Labour didn't get in so I'll take it as a win.
I was tempted to join the Uk Labour Party for the sole purpose of voting for Corbyn . Glad I didn’t because Mays ineptitude would have made me feel very silly.
-
@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Depends on scale surely? Scale of inteference and scale of investigation.
I concur.
-
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
-
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
I don't know. I think I'd be more pissed off about millions of pounds in public money being spent on determining that the Russians played silly buggers on social media. If it was talk of hacking voting machines or channelling massive amounts of cash into the hands of certain candidates or parties then fair enough. But as far as I'm aware, there have never been any claims of this actually occurring.
Are there actually specific terms of reference for this investigation?
-
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@catogrande said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel Do you not think that if there is a possibility that a foreign power is trying to influence your electoral process that it's not worthy of investigation? Leaving aside the right v left and pro/anti Trump issues?
Do you honestly think this is something new? Shit the Guardian was very upfront in their attempts to influence voters in Clarke County during the 2004 election. Maybe not a foreign power, but still a dirty foreigner melding in an election and trying to influence the result.
If the Russians controlled congressmen or senators or judges then yes, investigate that, but bots on social media? Give me a break.
I don' think it's as simple as bots on social media mate, more importantly, neither do the Seppos. Whether or not more is found will likely be the measurement, but I would be pretty pissed off if something like this happened in the UK and the authorities did jack shit despite knowing about it.
I don't know. I think I'd be more pissed off about millions of pounds in public money being spent on determining that the Russians played silly buggers on social media. If it was talk of hacking voting machines or channelling massive amounts of cash into the hands of certain candidates or parties then fair enough. But as far as I'm aware, there have never been any claims of this actually occurring.
Are there actually specific terms of reference for this investigation?
I can't get worked up about the wasting of public money anymore, if it doesn't get spent on this it will get spent on some other waste product. I once queried with a mate that worked for the county council why there had been a rash of stupid road "improvements". You know the sort of things, bike lanes that run for 30m and up up nowhere, that sort of thing. His answer? "It's the end of the financial year, if they don't spend their budget they loose it and risk having it cut the following year".
I haven't seen anything published about terms of reference for this investigation, but I haven't really looked.
US Politics