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@gt12 What speech is Trump stopping exactly?
What stuff can Brennan now not say that he could previously?
Why is Brennan upset? Why does he need clearance?Trump has changed lots of stuff. He has also banned his staff from becoming lobbyists.
Let's be honest Brennan was using his clearance for profit by working on MSNBC.
Any others on that list do that? -
IMO, I think this is happening as payback for him being a critic of the administration. So, I don't think it is about stopping free speech per se (he's not locked up), but it is about the president punishing people for expressing their opinion. Is there any proof that he has abused his clearance? That has traditionally been the step for having it removed, so I think that the lesson here is that if you are critical of the administration, you'll be penalized. That doesn't sound like a great idea to me.
Btw, I actually agree with @antipodean that retired officials should have their clearance revoked. However, if that's the case, then I think putting that to congress and changing established practice for all retired directors would be a fairer and more appropriate way of dealing with it.
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@gt12 I mostly agree, free speech is hardest to defend when people are saying stuff you dont like.
I dont really see it as a free speech issue, but can see the argument. I think it is more about that clearance being a privilege not a right. And Brennan (like Trump) has broken the mould on how to behave, a ex CIA director jumping on cable TV and ranting, making incredibly thinly veiled statements that he knows things that you don't is dangerous and not really great.
I think the unwritten 'normal' was that these people keep clearance, but they dont go on national news shows and leverage that clearance.And congress doesnt need to be involved, it is the presidents sole job. Not up for debate really.
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John McCain just died. He kind of tarnished his legacy towards the end there but that was kind of understandable given what Trump said about it. Can't take anything away from what he achieved after going through hell for so many years.
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@donsteppa said in US Politics:
Sad news about John McCain. He always seemed like a very decent bloke.
I think he seriously lost the plot in the last few years. And his accomplishments in politics were a procession of failures. Would have made a good president, if he hadn't been savaged by the media..... Like every other republican nominee and president
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@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
@donsteppa said in US Politics:
Sad news about John McCain. He always seemed like a very decent bloke.
I think he seriously lost the plot in the last few years. And his accomplishments in politics were a procession of failures. Would have made a good president, if he hadn't been savaged by the media..... Like every other republican nominee and president
Not sure I was ever comfortable with McCain has President, he had a massive temper.
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@donsteppa said in US Politics:
Would have made a good president, if ...
... he hadn't picked Sarah Palin as running mate
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@booboo said in US Politics:
@donsteppa said in US Politics:
Would have made a good president, if ...
... he hadn't picked Sarah Palin as running mate
Oh yeah... Yet another left wing media target. How much do you actually know about her?
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@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
@booboo said in US Politics:
@donsteppa said in US Politics:
Would have made a good president, if ...
... he hadn't picked Sarah Palin as running mate
Oh yeah... Yet another left wing media target. How much do you actually know about her?
Am not commenting on her ability just her electability. Her image didn't help his chances.
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@booboo said in US Politics:
@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
@booboo said in US Politics:
@donsteppa said in US Politics:
Would have made a good president, if ...
... he hadn't picked Sarah Palin as running mate
Oh yeah... Yet another left wing media target. How much do you actually know about her?
Am not commenting on her ability just her electability. Her image didn't help his chances.
Which was my point. Her image, like every single republican for decades has been slanted by a left wing media. Just like McCains was. Some of the things written about him were horrific. Kinda sickening how they are not clambering to say how great he was
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@paekakboyz said in US Politics:
@booboo there was only room for one maverick in that team.
Do you actually remember the things said about him while he was running against saint Obama??? Maverick would have been a massive compliment
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The maverick call became a joke iirc, especially once Palin really started getting some air time.
Vitriol gets aimed at any and all candidates, left or right. Would agree that candidates on the left have had more MSM support, particularly since Obama, but some icky stuff gets fired in all directions.
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@paekakboyz said in US Politics:
The maverick call became a joke iirc, especially once Palin really started getting some air time.
Vitriol gets aimed at any and all candidates, left or right. Would agree that candidates on the left have had more MSM support, particularly since Obama, but some icky stuff gets fired in all directions.
Nope I would not agree at all.
Sure stuff gets said about all candidates. But republican candidates get slaughtered very time in a vicious way.. far beyond anything a democrat.. jeez Obama had his citizenship questioned... and that wasn't even by MSM much.. and that was about it. Trump is immune to criticism form MSM .. because candidates were also slandered, and that was clearly bullshit so now people just dont believe anything. -
Are we just talking about slander via MSM or media? or by joe public? You don't agree that MSM has taken it easier on left aligned candidates than those on the right? or that vitriol is aimed at both sides?
I think it's gotten incredibly personal across the board in the last 2-3 elections in particular. With things hitting peak bullshit with Trump, where as you said, it's all hot air now as so much shit was thrown about. Obama coped a hell of a lot more than just the birther stuff. Not that I think any of this is productive or required as part of electing someone.
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@paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Are we just talking about slander via MSM or media? or by joe public? You don't agree that MSM has taken it easier on left aligned candidates than those on the right? or that vitriol is aimed at both sides?
I think it's gotten incredibly personal across the board in the last 2-3 elections in particular. With things hitting peak bullshit with Trump, where as you said, it's all hot air now as so much shit was thrown about. Obama coped a hell of a lot more than just the birther stuff. Not that I think any of this is productive or required as part of electing someone.
My post was poorly written.
I think the MSM has been consistently and viciously biased for a few decades, they have cried wolf time and time again.
Now they just ave no cut through at all.As for voters, I think they have been roughly equal in vitriol until the last couple of presidents, but I think Obama got far more of a fair go initially than Trump or Bush did. And now it will escalate, the next president will never be accepted by the pother side. The whole US system is on a slide and the blame lays squarely at the feet of the media.
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I think the fair go for Obama saw a lot of people go a bit easier given the significance of the first black president, and maybe being a bit gun shy of criticizing him for fear of the race-card etc. But that certainly wasn't an issue for those who really didn't like him and/or his policies. The irony there is that a lot of criticism was genuinely about his politics rather than who Obama was!!
People are so fast to rush too, and absolutely defend, 'a' position that they leave themselves nowhere to go. Forcing yourself to take steps (or several!) to play the ball rather than the candidate/politician/party doesn't come easy when you look at our tribal approach.
It's talking the two-party situation even further for the US. Which isn't great, although you'd be talking of years and years of political change to see a viable third option appearing.
US Politics