-
@Crucial said in British Politics:
@Kirwan said in British Politics:
@Crucial said in British Politics:
@Kirwan said in British Politics:
Standing in front of a sign some may disagree with or find offensive is not an excuse for the the state behaving like they have with TR.
And someone said that that it is?
It's where you are leading with this line, IMO;
"but I am curious about how you view that particular sign and how that may have set the original stance toward him"
He could be standing in front of a sign full of racist nonsense and still should not have been treated how he was by the police and the justice system.
I'm not leading anywhere or justifying anything. Simply saying that shit sticks and I would be absolutely certain that all of TRs problems arise from his involvement with the EDL. You can't discount that fact.
I was simply commenting on one sign that he was happy to stand in front of and add his voice. That is all.One sign negates all of his arguments? I would also strongly question whether the EDL is the sole reason for TRs problems. I'd say they would have gone after him regardless. Have to "keep the peace" .
-
@Crucial said in British Politics:
@Kirwan said in British Politics:
@Crucial said in British Politics:
@Kirwan said in British Politics:
Standing in front of a sign some may disagree with or find offensive is not an excuse for the the state behaving like they have with TR.
And someone said that that it is?
It's where you are leading with this line, IMO;
"but I am curious about how you view that particular sign and how that may have set the original stance toward him"
He could be standing in front of a sign full of racist nonsense and still should not have been treated how he was by the police and the justice system.
I'm not leading anywhere or justifying anything. Simply saying that shit sticks and I would be absolutely certain that all of TRs problems arise from his involvement with the EDL. You can't discount that fact.
I was simply commenting on one sign that he was happy to stand in front of and add his voice. That is all.And my point of view is people can stand in front of offensive signs as much as they like, and don't deserve to have the state try and ruin their lives.
-
-
@Crucial It's a fair point regarding the sign for anyone who is just a casual observer. It comes across as completely divisive and a totally unfair representation of just another religion and I get the argument that if Tommy really wanted to fairly criticise a religion he should have been doing it in a more educated well-spoken fashion. This was the boat I was in when I lived in London.
This changes however when I put that sign and Tommy into context.
Firstly Tommy, although very bright, he is not an academic, he is a working class football lad. He is plain speaking and speaks the language of the working class of Britain. Just because he is working class doesn't mean he is wrong. Author and political commentator Douglas Murray shares almost the exact same viewpoint but uses upper-class language, the thing is working class folk are extremely unlikely to get behind a toffy academic and vice versa.
Also the sign itself..well it also isn't wrong. Even through cursory reading of Islamic text or history shows that it is not just a religion but also an explicit legal and political system. A system entrenched in medieval times with explicit protections, on pain of death, not to change or modernise. The hatred towards non Muslims referenced is explicit in the Qur'an itself with a clear hierarchy of believers having a higher place in society and greater protections than non-believers. I'm actually in the process of trying to write up a summary of the Qur'an with references to the actual text to make it a little more accessible if people want to get to know what is in it, happy to post it on tsf as well if anyone is interested and can't be bothered reading the actual text.
Finally, the societal context also needs to be taken into account. These communities have been hardest hit by some of the negative effects of Islamic immigration from 2nd/3rd world countries and from what I can tell quite rightly feel like there problems are not only being ignored by their own government but they are being persecuted for even complaining. The ongoing child grooming scandal being a huge one but also extremist violence and what appears to be a two-tiered policing system designed to 'keep the peace' by placating the more vocal/violent groups by suppressing the less violent local groups.
-
@Crucial I would be absolutely certain that all of TRs problems arise because of people, actual living individuals, like MPs, journalists and judges.
Now we can individually distill down the facts of those judgements but blaming his jail time and general treatment as a result of a temporary affiliation with a group seems counter to your claim about law abiding peaceful individuals from another group.
Condemned for life because of an affiliation with a group offers no hope for redemption, even when presented with subsequent facts?
Yeah nah
-
@Siam said in British Politics:
@Crucial I would be absolutely certain that all of TRs problems arise because of people, actual living individuals, like MPs, journalists and judges.
Now we can individually distill down the facts of those judgements but blaming his jail time and general treatment as a result of a temporary affiliation with a group seems counter to your claim about law abiding peaceful individuals from another group.
Condemned for life because of an affiliation with a group offers no hope for redemption, even when presented with subsequent facts?
Yeah nah
Interesting point. So belonging to a group with an extreme element is ok if you re a Muslim but not if you are TR..
-
@Crucial said and I would be absolutely certain that all of TRs problems arise from his involvement with the EDL. You can't discount that fact.
Sorry to go on, sort of but this statement reminded me of times in Thailand when a foreigner would be raped and murdered in Thailand and always some official would resort to, "well if they weren't here they wouldn't have been murdered"
It's true, you can't dispute that fact !!
-
So this is exciting. BBC Panorama have gone after Tommy...but it looks like he might have got the drop on them and has been teasing out some undercover footage of his own, which he is looking to release on 30 foot screens outside of either the Manchester or London BBC offices.
Also in related news after some in person conversations with some Pakistani ex-Muslims from the UK in the last couple days I now know more than ever that he is the good guy in this madness. These guys could not speak highly enough of him but can't support him publicly because of the fake news around him.
-
@Rembrandt said in British Politics:
So this is exciting. BBC Panorama have gone after Tommy...but it looks like he might have got the drop on them and has been teasing out some undercover footage of his own, which he is looking to release on 30 foot screens outside of either the Manchester or London BBC offices.
Also in related news after some in person conversations with some Pakistani ex-Muslims from the UK in the last couple days I now know more than ever that he is the good guy in this madness. These guys could not speak highly enough of him but can't support him publicly because of the fake news around him.
He looked like the cat who got the cream. He must be sitting on something pretty explosive. The question is whether anyone will actually give a shit. You get the feeling that he could uncover evidence of widespread child abuse by BBC presenters and he'd still be painted as the bad guy.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel it'll be denied I reckon like everything.
I know it probably feels different actually living there but from what I've watched online and some facts, that country is fucked.I still can't believe that a dominant first world country has a recent history of thousands and thousands of poor little girls abused and raped under known circumstances. In perspective think of every girl under the age of 16 you've ever known, now imagine that girl having suffered sexual abuse and the lives ahead of them.
All the parents that noticed or notified that something was wrong and still it takes a decade for action.
Not even third world despots would allow that scale of abuse to it's own people!Now all efforts are used to obfuscate any factual sunlight on the authorities involved and responsible.
Not to mention a police and justice system totally corrupted by transgender activists.
I'm viewing Britain as a pathetic and disgusting system and all the while I'm told that Tommy Robinson is actually the real criminal in all this.
Mind blowing!
-
@Rembrandt I think it might be a video outlining, in less detail, the book contents.
It's a must watch purely to increase world awareness and narrative generation.
Also, he gives so many examples that it would be relatively easy to refute ( with evidence) his versions of events, if someone was inclined.
I wait with baited breath explanations that dispute what he shows in these docos...
It's a fucken mess and I welcome another or explanation to his claims.
Rembrandt, you think the government has too much to hide, hence the persecution? I mean does the government actually want the general public to know the stark realities of what happened to thousands of daughters and sisters? They nailed girl's tongues to desks! Among other depraved atrocities
-
@Siam Hard to get your head around when you read the reports. I lived there during the time and it just didn't feature in the papers or if it did the religious aspect was covered up entirely. Government people are cowards, they are more concerned about the potential outrage of being called racist and not being reelected than the welfare of children, particularly if they are white working class. Tories don't care and labour have pushes them aside for the immigrant voting bloc even if it means ignoring child rape. I think its more about self preservation and the failure of journalism. If media had given a damn about actual reporting in the first place they might have stood a chance.
I met this bloke over the weekend, there is video on youtube of him nearly being beaten to death in Bradford for converting to Christianity. He's currently seeking asylum for him and his family in Aussie/Canada or the USA as Britain is no longer safe. People don't quite realise just how bad things have become, there are entirely Islamic sections of Britain now where if you are outed as an apostate they will try and kill you. The police also cannot entirely be trusted as a number hold the same extremist beliefs.
-
@sparky said in British Politics:
Sounds like some MPs are going to resign from the UK Labour today , possibly to set up their own party. Event in just over an hour.
Chuka Umunna led a group of Labour MPs in quitting the party over Jeremy Corbyn's handling of Brexit and claims of anti-Semitism.
The group, including Luciana Berger stood down today and formed a "new group of independent MPs" in a protest over "the future of British politics" in a significant party split.
The MPs who quit Labour are: Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Chris Leslie, Ann Coffey, Angela Smith, Gavin Shuker and Mike Gapes.
The group announced in a statement: "We are leaving the Labour Party to sit as the Independent Group of Members of Parliament."Our primary duty as Members of Parliament is to put the best interests of our constituents and our country first. Yet like so many others, we believe that none of today’s political parties are fit to provide the leadership and direction needed by our country.
"Our aim is to pursue policies that are evidence-based, not led by ideology, taking a long-term perspective to the challenges of the 21st century in the national interest, rather than locked in the old politics of the 20th century in the party’s interests.
"As an Independent Group we aim to recognise the value of healthy debate, show tolerance towards different opinions and seek to reach across outdated divides and build consensus to tackle Britain’s problems."
They are angry over leader Jeremy Corbyn's approach to Brexit and his lack of progress on tackling accusations of anti-Semitism within Labour.
Labour disclosed last week it had received 673 allegations of anti-Semitism by its members over the past 10 months, leading to 12 individuals being expelled. Writing in the Sun on Sunday, Michael Dugher said the Labour Party had repeatedly failed to "adequately tackle anti-Semitism".
The now chief executive of UK Music said: "I will continue to have lots of dear friends in the Labour Party, including many talented MPs and hard-working local councillors who are fantastically dedicated public servants.
"Yet in all good conscience, I can no longer justify paying subs to a party which I now regard as institutionally anti-Semitic."
This story is being updated.
British Politics