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@gt12 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
I won’t be surprised if he endured significant bullying (the father’s suicide and associated trauma doesn’t surprise me) and I’d wager he had some event where he was passed over or in some other perceived a slight against his person that he could point towards brown, specially Muslim, people.
I guess spending considerable time in Turkey would assist there. London to a brick you won't find many crusading against bullying with this as their poster child.
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Just another asshole using the 50 dead for personal/political gain
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214162
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Erdogan is the antithesis of Ataturk.
Major ISP in Australia has now also jumped on the same censorship bandwagon.
...nothing like giant corporations being the arbiters of societal morality. Independent news site and what appears to be some sort of farming blog (joke) as being the two I'm aware of.
At least in Australia there are some media who might actually make a stand against giving away freedoms so willingly.
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Well Abbott wants to make it so that you can't use the Internet anonymously. Bit of an overreaction and a considerable leap down the path of 1984. Once they know who you are, they can visit and advise your opinions aren't correct.
Particularly if you're scathing of elected officials or imbecilic public servants.
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..also some sites named after what I can only assume was their Chinese founder.
At some point you have to decide do you want to live in a free society with all the uncertainty that can bring or would you rather we live in a world where governments and corporations determine what thoughts are permissible?
These experiments have already been done last century and the results are crystal clear as to what will happen.
I can't help but feel the exact worst people are calling the shots right now.
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@Rembrandt yeah, this is part of the statement from the GCSB:
New Zealand’s intelligence and security agencies do not currently have the legal authority, technical means or resources to actively monitor all online activity that occurs in New Zealand. In addition, all intelligence and security agencies are grappling with the challenges of encryption and closed online communities.
We can't have it both ways. Either we allow organisations like NZSIS and GCSB to monitor us, or we accept that some people will slip through the cracks in a free society.
Either way, surveillance is really the last line of defense. It's the ideas that lead to this that need challenging, which is why we should not push them further underground.
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I have an immigrant wife who has copped some awful abuse in the last year. She spent most of the weekend in tears and is now scared to ride the bus or walk through town following the events.
A heavy police presence mitigates this considerably, as does prosecuting people for inciting this hatred.
Personally I think the police and government have handled this situation wonderfully and I hope this approach continues.
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@SammyC said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
I have an immigrant wife who has copped some awful abuse in the last year. She spent most of the weekend in tears and is now scared to ride the bus or walk through town following the events.
A heavy police presence mitigates this considerably, as does prosecuting people for inciting this hatred.
Personally I think the police and government have handled this situation wonderfully and I hope this approach continues.
That's terrible mate. Is that a normal occurrence in Chch? The city always had a rep for being a bit of a white power hot bed but getting accosted on a regular basis in broad daylight is unacceptable
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@SammyC said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
I have an immigrant wife who has copped some awful abuse in the last year. She spent most of the weekend in tears and is now scared to ride the bus or walk through town following the events.
A heavy police presence mitigates this considerably, as does prosecuting people for inciting this hatred.
Personally I think the police and government have handled this situation wonderfully and I hope this approach continues.
That's terrible mate. Is that a normal occurrence in Chch? The city always had a rep for being a bit of a white power hot bed but getting accosted on a regular basis in broad daylight is unacceptable
I hadn't noticed it much until the last year or so, where it's happened a couple of times. Both times she's been on her own and the abusers have been groups of young men.
It's unacceptable and I feel really ashamed it's happened in Christchurch.
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@SammyC said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@SammyC said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
I have an immigrant wife who has copped some awful abuse in the last year. She spent most of the weekend in tears and is now scared to ride the bus or walk through town following the events.
A heavy police presence mitigates this considerably, as does prosecuting people for inciting this hatred.
Personally I think the police and government have handled this situation wonderfully and I hope this approach continues.
That's terrible mate. Is that a normal occurrence in Chch? The city always had a rep for being a bit of a white power hot bed but getting accosted on a regular basis in broad daylight is unacceptable
I hadn't noticed it much until the last year or so, where it's happened a couple of times. Both times she's been on her own and the abusers have been groups of young men.
It's unacceptable and I feel really ashamed it's happened in Christchurch.
God damn heroes the lot of them. No excuse for it. Even more reason to operate with a low tolerance stance to all hate acts going forward
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@SammyC thanks for sharing, I know it's not easy but the only way to address racism like that is to call it out.
I don't think laws against racist attitudes will stop people being racist. It will only drive them underground to forums like 8chan where they will sit in an echo chamber with building resentment towards society. I want a light shone on these ideas - it'd be great to see debates with far right racists to really showcase how bad their ideas are. I'd love to see someone like Jordan Peterson dissect Richard Spencer (well known neo-Nazi) in a debate the same way he has in some of his viral videos picking apart idiotic far left ideas.
We shouldn't fear these people's ideas. They're wrong on just about everything. De-platforming them only builds their case and feeds into their conspiracy theories and resentment.
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This is a terrific sentiment from a colleague in regards to the video and the censorship that has followed (I've edited out anything personally identifiable)
My kids have seen it and shared across their school whatsapp students group. They attend an islamic school and they are in the state of hijab (head cover) so they're wondering when someone is going to come to their school and mow kids down .
there's also a lot of anger understandably among their friends.
I encouraged them to reflect on what they saw and how fear, anger and hate turns to violence and it's applicable to the whole human race.
justice and revenge are not the same thing so they should use the video to discuss how best to identify and address hate in a way that all parties feel respected / engaged by heart and mind.
we are facing extreme polarisation and its got to a point where mass murdering is not enough. it needs to be live streamed.
It is a core tenant of islam that nothing happens without god's permission and any thing bad has the seed of something much greater.
Given the out pour of support at my kids local school on the weekend (no space to walk in the hall, below the hall, outside standing), my belief has only strengthened.
Blocking the video does not help address the root cause and I appreciate the sincere (but flawed) gesture from the ISP.
If the ISP wants to do something to help, please share the following on the sites you've blocked or maybe as a pop up ( author unknown).
(I) Appreciate that you made the effort to find out the timing of our noon prayer.
Appreciate that you learnt more about our religion to know that Fridays are the days the men go to the Mosques for their congregational prayers.
But I guess there were some things you, rather unfortunately, didn’t get to learn.
Perhaps you didn’t know that what you did made them Martyrs.
And how you have single-handedly raised the statuses of our brothers and sisters in the eyes of their beloved Creator with your actions. And how, through your actions, they will be raised as the most righteous and pious of Muslims.
Perhaps you didn’t know that doing what you did, at the time and place you chose, it actually meant that the last words that escaped their lips were probably words of remembrance and praise of Allah. Which is a noble end many Muslims could only dream of.
And perhaps you didn’t know, but what you did would almost guarantee them paradise.
Appreciate that you showed the world how Muslims welcome, with open arms, even people like yourself into our Mosques, which is our second home.
Appreciate you for showing that our mosques have no locks or gates, and are unguarded because everyone and anyone is welcome to be with us.
Appreciate you for allowing the world to see the powerful image of a man you injured, lying on back on the stretcher with his index finger raised high, as a declaration of his faith and complete trust in Allah.
Appreciate how you brought the Churches and communities together to stand with us Muslims.
Appreciate that you made countless New Zealanders come out of their homes to visit the mosques nearest to them with flowers with beautiful messages of peace and love.
You have broken many many hearts and you have made the world weep. You have left a huge void.
But what you also have done have brought us closer together. And it has strengthened our faith and resolve.
In the coming weeks, more people will turn up in the Mosques, a place you hate so much, fortified by the strength in their faith, and inspired by their fallen brothers and sisters.
In the coming weeks, more non Muslims will turn up at the gates of mosques with fresh flowers and beautifully handwritten notes. They may not have known where the mosques in their area was. But now, they do. All because of you.
You may have achieved your aim of intended destruction, but I guess you failed to incite hatred, fear and despair in all of us.
And while I understand that it may have been your objective, I hate to say that after all of that elaborate planning, and the perverse and wretched efforts on your part, you still failed to drive a divide among the the Muslims and non-Muslims in the world.
For that, I can’t say that I’m sorry.
(A Radiant Muslim)* -
@antipodean said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Well Abbott wants to make it so that you can't use the Internet anonymously. Bit of an overreaction and a considerable leap down the path of 1984. Once they know who you are, they can visit and advise your opinions aren't correct.
Particularly if you're scathing of elected officials or imbecilic public servants.
You can say what you like, you just have to be prepared to reap the consequences of what you say. I’ve long thought twitter would be somewhat better platform if everybody required a blue tick.
I don’t see how this close to 1984. No hinderance on free speech.
Edit - aware of the hypocrisy there ... posting as major rage on a forum! However, like I’m sure almost all others, this is done to protect identity from colleagues and clients. More than prepared to share identity with anybody who asks over PM
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@antipodean said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Well Abbott wants to make it so that you can't use the Internet anonymously. Bit of an overreaction and a considerable leap down the path of 1984. Once they know who you are, they can visit and advise your opinions aren't correct.
Particularly if you're scathing of elected officials or imbecilic public servants.
Not the first thing thing Abbott will be forced to walk back in his public life, nor the last I'm guessing.
@Rembrandt said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Erdogan is the antithesis of Ataturk.
Major ISP in Australia has now also jumped on the same censorship bandwagon.
...nothing like giant corporations being the arbiters of societal morality. Independent news site and what appears to be some sort of farming blog (joke) as being the two I'm aware of.
At least in Australia there are some media who might actually make a stand against giving away freedoms so willingly.
"Giving away freedoms"?
The chan sites often devolve into cesspits of child porn, right wing extremism with associated left wing backlash, and the subsequent civil wars this triggers. I don't think that content is in any way acceptable. I also don't think hosting 17 minutes of real-life Nazi fanboi shooter action is acceptable either.
Does anyone?
Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to moderate, so the pin getting pulled is the easiest option until those responsible for the sites can demonstrably pull their shit back together and put in place measures aimed at preventing it.
They won't be able to prevent all of it, of course. The internet is a hydra and the cost of moderation would be ridiculous. Nobody has said these blocks are permanent.
Maybe that's a bit simplistic from me. I was on the road when Apple pulled the Tumblr app from its app list due to the long association with child porn distribution, so I probably missed the no-doubt enthusiastic discussion about what a blow that was for freedom.
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@barbarian said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MajorRage said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
The virtue signalling is getting on my tits.
Hit a new low this morning from somebody who, frankly speaking, I expected much better of. Based in Melbourne, went to some Mosque over the weekend to "support the community" and has taken a photo with her partner, both of them cuddling up pulling one of their "funny selfie" pictures.
Basically tourism.
I agree with you about the signalling, but one fact that might be relevant - in Melbourne on the weekend it was some sort of Mosque 'open day', where non-Islamic people were encouraged to visit, take photos etc.
So it might not have been as insensitive as it seemed.
Interesting. I'm not sure if this changing things for me or not though. Still virtue signalling, still tourism.
I don't think it was insensitive. Just missing the (very obvious, serious and critical) point.
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@MajorRage said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
You can say what you like, you just have to be prepared to reap the consequences of what you say. I’ve long thought twitter would be somewhat better platform if everybody required a blue tick.
And look at some of the hoops you have to jump through to get something moderated on Twitter. It can be a fine line between what is free speech and what is hate speech, and you can't cover every example.
I actually read the appropriate passages of the 18C and 18D here, and there is a lot of subjectivity to it because it is Law, not Rule.
And then you've got layers of local v international differences and Ts & Cs for the site you're on. Fucking minefield.
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@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@SammyC thanks for sharing, I know it's not easy but the only way to address racism like that is to call it out.
I don't think laws against racist attitudes will stop people being racist. It will only drive them underground to forums like 8chan where they will sit in an echo chamber with building resentment towards society. I want a light shone on these ideas - it'd be great to see debates with far right racists to really showcase how bad their ideas are. I'd love to see someone like Jordan Peterson dissect Richard Spencer (well known neo-Nazi) in a debate the same way he has in some of his viral videos picking apart idiotic far left ideas.
We shouldn't fear these people's ideas. They're wrong on just about everything. De-platforming them only builds their case and feeds into their conspiracy theories and resentment.
Slightly off topic, but on the issue of racism, bigotry and violence
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@MajorRage said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
You can say what you like, you just have to be prepared to reap the consequences of what you say. I’ve long thought twitter would be somewhat better platform if everybody required a blue tick.
There's a lot of arseholes saying some repugnant things with blue ticks on Twitter.
I don’t see how this close to 1984. No hinderance on free speech.
I thought I covered that when I said Once they know who you are, they can visit and advise your opinions aren't correct.
Christchurch Gunman in Mosque