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@taniwharugby Yeah, I'll try think thinking for myself when I've collected my own data from the poles.
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@taniwharugby said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Snowy you should do your own research
Good call , the Internet is full of great sources that won’t just back up your preconceived ideas .
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@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@jegga said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Salacious-Crumb said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
The earth has been hotter in the past; the earth has been cooler in the past.
The qualifying factor in the date above is “recorded history,” in other words, when man recorded it.
But if the earth has been both hotter and cooler before mankind existed, is it even remotely possible, just a teeny-weeny little bit, that maybe mankind isn’t exclusively responsible for climate change, and that maybe the sun and water vapour are factors too?
Just asking, in good faith, before we’re forced to abandon civilization to make temperatures drop maybe 1/100th of a degree.
Don't take any notice if the graph above (the first post). Its crap
Climate change is just a weird modern day end of world cult. Where CO2 somehow through a process called back radiation (radiation leaving earth and returning about a second later) creates more warming than the sun does. And this process will almost destroy planet earth
Our sin now though is driving car and heating our house. And we must pay indulgences for our sinfulness in the form of contributions to climate funds etc.
Its amazing what garbage people believe. If the elite said there was health giving mineral on the moon and we all need to pay into a fund to get the minerals and repeated it over and over and over etc in the papers most would demand the Govt pay into this fund to save lives.
I could be wrong but I think people believing all kinds of moronic conspiracy theories wasn't as prevalent before the internet . Now it seems like theres hordes of morons who will never be convinced 9/11 wasn't an inside job or even more dangerously they believe nonsense like homeopathy or that the measles vaccine causes autism. 72 people died in Samoa and these nutters are still posting lies about vaccines on social media.
Try to stick to the topic. Or do you always do this in a group. Butt in with irrelevant crap
point of order there Winger, it is relevant as it speaks to the credibility of your source:
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@reprobate said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@jegga said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Salacious-Crumb said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
The earth has been hotter in the past; the earth has been cooler in the past.
The qualifying factor in the date above is “recorded history,” in other words, when man recorded it.
But if the earth has been both hotter and cooler before mankind existed, is it even remotely possible, just a teeny-weeny little bit, that maybe mankind isn’t exclusively responsible for climate change, and that maybe the sun and water vapour are factors too?
Just asking, in good faith, before we’re forced to abandon civilization to make temperatures drop maybe 1/100th of a degree.
Don't take any notice if the graph above (the first post). Its crap
Climate change is just a weird modern day end of world cult. Where CO2 somehow through a process called back radiation (radiation leaving earth and returning about a second later) creates more warming than the sun does. And this process will almost destroy planet earth
Our sin now though is driving car and heating our house. And we must pay indulgences for our sinfulness in the form of contributions to climate funds etc.
Its amazing what garbage people believe. If the elite said there was health giving mineral on the moon and we all need to pay into a fund to get the minerals and repeated it over and over and over etc in the papers most would demand the Govt pay into this fund to save lives.
I could be wrong but I think people believing all kinds of moronic conspiracy theories wasn't as prevalent before the internet . Now it seems like theres hordes of morons who will never be convinced 9/11 wasn't an inside job or even more dangerously they believe nonsense like homeopathy or that the measles vaccine causes autism. 72 people died in Samoa and these nutters are still posting lies about vaccines on social media.
Try to stick to the topic. Or do you always do this in a group. Butt in with irrelevant crap
point of order there Winger, it is relevant as it speaks to the credibility of your source:
Disgraceful. There was another poster who’s name escapes me that used to cite sources like that to back up his pro disease claims. One of them was the natural health news , fortunately that ridiculous persons credibility was well and truly blown by then .
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He's just another 'researcher' on the CC gravy train. Ive been reading about the arctic ice all melting for so long now. Gore's prediction. What about all the NZ snow melting on the ski fields.
Look if you are making money from it in some way fair enough I guess. But some youngsters are losing sleep over it. Its gone on long enough now. Hopefully Trump will put this scare story to bed before long as the way its going it will seriously impact on the Wests economy esp with the number of crazies on board due to brainwashing in the media and at school.
The sane need to step up and stop this from going any further, Because the "science" supporting MMCC is beyond silly. According to the proven science warming from back radiation (where radiation leaves earth and returns about one second later) cause twice the warming from the sun. And cows farting (or burbing) is a real concern. FFS. I wonder at times if the elite are piss taking and having fun to see how gullible we are.
individual but he was struggling to be that way when I questioned him on climate change. He is well into his sixties but loves his work so hasn't retired. He is also one of the blokes that does all of the research on ice, sea temperatures, etc. Has been down to Antarctica many times and returned from a trip to the Arctic on a Russian icebreaker a couple of weeks ago. They got all the way to 85deg north and the news wasn't good from the data collected, nor was it when he was in Antarctica earlier. Rate of polar melt is increasing and the ice was thin enough for them to keep going North.
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This post is deleted!
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Michael Mann did the first hockey stick graph. Where the medieval warm period was removed. So one of the leading climate 'scientists' refuse to divulge his original data.
James Matkin
James Matkin, former Deputy Minister at Government of British Columbia (1974-1983)
Updated Nov 18Yes. Many scientists oppose the action of Michael Mann erasing climate history to create a new theory. Dr. Tim Ball is one of the most vigorous. For his efforts Mann started a SLAP libel suit to shut down the criticism. Mann recently lost the suit in the Supreme Court of BC for inordinate delay. He also refused to abide by a consent order to divulge his original data.
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@Winger Did you see the next graph on that link you posted, seems to support the hockey stick. Looks like we can all find data that supports our belief. I find thinking for myself helps and I have experienced and seen signs of a warming planet. I cannot know if that is man made as I am no scientist, but I tend to believe experts in that field.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback Same as every other person on the planet then?
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@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Same as every other person on the planet then?
Yip
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback This is part of the problem isn't it, we as humans tend to have very strong beliefs that rarely change and we can be stubborn even in the face of evidence, think flat earthers.
When something like CC comes along it can be almost impossible to find a consensus among people. Who do you believe? How much evidence is enough? How long do you have to wait until the debate is over?
None of us are experts yet we all have strong beliefs including myself. As I have mentioned before I am suffering through the hottest ever recorded temperatures on record, drought and the real risk of fire. It is not hard for my brain to link these dramas to climate change, but is that the actual cause? As usual plenty say yes and some say no.
My theory is if we are responsible for CC and we can do things that reduce our impact without causing too many dramas I think we should. I am thinking greener energy, electric cars etc etc.
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@chimoaus This comment was good just above your graph:
If you ask the IPCC, founded in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environment Programme, they’ll tell you that the planet has warmed since the Medieval Warm Period based on the following graph collecting estimates of past climate by many researchers.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus No you believe some experts, and don't believe others
Yep. Believe the university professor scientists (who get grants), or the scientists supported by oil companies and governments?
I've watched worldwide meteorology for 35 years as it effected my everyday life on all parts of the globe. I also studied it and I believe my neighbour. It is warming, whether the "tipping point" predictions are credible, I don't know and neither was he sure.
In some ways historical data is irrelevant because we didn't have mass human involvement with releasing carbon (or not, depending on your viewpoint) as a scientific control. There is nothing to compare it to.
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@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
My theory is if we are responsible for CC and we can do things that reduce our impact without causing too many dramas I think we should. I am thinking greener energy, electric cars etc etc.
I think most sensible people are in total agreement with this.
The outrage is when the plan involves the destruction of society, indirect killing millions of people and is pushed by rich jet setting folk who don't practice what they preach and are pro censorship, expulsion or imprisonment for those that don't tow their extremist line.
I think there is just a lot of ignorance out there as to what adopting extremist policies would actually do to an average person's life. Websites like NZ's Stuff.co.nz (and I'm sure many more mainstream sites) outright ban all opposing views or simply paint everyone with an alternative take as 'climate change deniers' which sits somewhere between 'Holocaust denier' and 'Flat-earther' in the hierarchy of people you don't want to associate with.
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I realise this proves nothing but the heatwave we are going through now is fucken terrible. The animals are suffering, its almost impossible to do anything outside. We have had I think 11mm of rain in over a month.
And it is getting to 43 today and 46 on Friday.
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@Rembrandt I guess that is the tricky part, find solutions that have minimal impact on people. With so many competing interests from big business to extremists, finding the balance is hard. I do believe that the voice of the people will ultimately dictate how govts will respond. How those people get their voice or beliefs is the interesting part.
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There's a vast chasm between the measurable, observable, replicable science and quoting the worst case scenarios from models, or the unqualified prognosticators of doom - the politicians and rent seekers.
Where you hop off that train determines whether you're sceptical or a nutjob.
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@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Yep. Believe the university professor scientists (who get grants), or the scientists supported by oil companies and governments?
Dont like this thinking much. I think there are opportunists and lobbyists on both sides, but it is massively lop sided towards the Green side. Huge money in grants,there is a huge corporate and political structure that relies on tax payers funding the movement. Any suggestion it is University professors vs oil companies is laughable in its simplicity and innacuracy. That is just a narrative repeated ad nauseam by the left.
Climate Change