Coronavirus - New Zealand
-
@JC said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I understand that the decision to move into lockdown had to be made pretty quickly but this doesn't look great
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357931
Maybe it wasn't totally legal, I think the right decision was made at the time
-
@JC interestingly, there is also other court stuff going on, 2 employees (not sure if same company) have taken thier employer/s to court over not paying them thier full wage while in lockdown, rather paying them 80% or whatever it was.
Court ruled in the employees favour, however employer is appealing.
Seriously, that could put many more businesses in jeopardy if they lose the appeal, they really need to call Cindy as a witness!
-
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Maybe it wasn't totally legal, I think the right decision was made at the time
Yep, I think it's probably sound process
Right call, wrong execution (and that's an error- could probably just pass a quick piece of enabling legislation).
The after the crisis courts examine it and agree it's illegal. Rule of law is really really important in a healthy democracy, and I think we probably got the right decision in the end
Really, the only people this affects are the wazzers who broke quarantine the first time, who (it turns out) didn't actually do anything wrong. Their prosecutions will be dropped (if they existed at all). That said, it sounds like (by Parker refusing to pass on the advice they received on this to Bridges and the Covid select committee) that the Govt may have known at the time it was illegal, but chose to push on anyway.
-
@canefan I don't disagree but there will be unintended consequences for sure. As @taniwharugby has posted any employer that relied on the order as the basis for dealing with their employees may not be able to rely on it as a defence. Actions will have to stand up based on the law as it actually stood, not as it was intended. It seems as if there were alternative regulations that could have been used that would have resulted in the lockdown being legal but those weren't chosen. That will suck if people lose cases that they didn't need to.
-
@JC Bit naive to think a lockdown negated existing contracts. We asked all employees to sacrifice salary from 5 different options and got signed acceptance of the programme and individual sacrifice from every employee. Most chose to give up towards the top of the range asked for.
We laid out exactly why we were asking, what we were asking and for how long and promised that there would be no extension. We also said there we would have to ask people to muck in and do what was necessary even if it wasn't in their PD but that there would be no focus on targets or profitability other than 1 the health and safety of our staff and their whanau and 2 the health and safety of our businesses.
-
@dogmeat good work. I think people understood it was either collective pay reduction or redundancies. Goodwill is there up to a point, but retrospectively challenging it (while legal) is a bit of a dick move.
That said, an employer can't unilaterally reduce pay - you have to do what you did and get signed agreement, time frames and reasons I would think (IANAL)
-
The kids are making a mess so aunty Helen sends in one of the grown ups. I don't know about you all, but when one of my contractors makes the same mistake over and over, the worst thing they can say to me is that they don't know why things are not working right. You know it's time to move on from them. At least if they say they understand what went wrong there is the hope that they can actually put it right
-
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@pakman The Tony Blair Institute for Global Change. backed by William Hague and Jeremy Hunt. Now there's a club I wouldn't want to join.
He does make a good point about travel, testing and risk though.
Does he though?
We have the two test regime for people in managed isolation - Day 3 and Day 11. I'm not certain of the precise breakdown but in the daily reporting there are plenty who get picked up on Day 11.
So while a one off test at (or before the border) will definitely stop some cases from getting out it won't come anywhere near catching them all.
Yeah I think so. Basically he said that if we want to get international travel back up and running we will have to accept some risk. More rigorous testing will mitigate that risk but not eliminate it.
-
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@pakman The Tony Blair Institute for Global Change. backed by William Hague and Jeremy Hunt. Now there's a club I wouldn't want to join.
He does make a good point about travel, testing and risk though.
Does he though?
We have the two test regime for people in managed isolation - Day 3 and Day 11. I'm not certain of the precise breakdown but in the daily reporting there are plenty who get picked up on Day 11.
So while a one off test at (or before the border) will definitely stop some cases from getting out it won't come anywhere near catching them all.
Yeah I think so. Basically he said that if we want to get international travel back up and running we will have to accept some risk. More rigorous testing will mitigate that risk but not eliminate it.
Any different from the days when pilots would stay up all night drinking and fucking and then have a hair of the dog before firing the engines?
-
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@pakman The Tony Blair Institute for Global Change. backed by William Hague and Jeremy Hunt. Now there's a club I wouldn't want to join.
He does make a good point about travel, testing and risk though.
Does he though?
We have the two test regime for people in managed isolation - Day 3 and Day 11. I'm not certain of the precise breakdown but in the daily reporting there are plenty who get picked up on Day 11.
So while a one off test at (or before the border) will definitely stop some cases from getting out it won't come anywhere near catching them all.
Yeah I think so. Basically he said that if we want to get international travel back up and running we will have to accept some risk. More rigorous testing will mitigate that risk but not eliminate it.
Any different from the days when pilots would stay up all night drinking and fucking and then have a hair of the dog before firing the engines?
Luckily we have tests these days. Breathalyser for the booze and a smug grin test for the shagging. The second test was found to be ineffective in lawyers and doctors
-
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@pakman The Tony Blair Institute for Global Change. backed by William Hague and Jeremy Hunt. Now there's a club I wouldn't want to join.
He does make a good point about travel, testing and risk though.
Does he though?
We have the two test regime for people in managed isolation - Day 3 and Day 11. I'm not certain of the precise breakdown but in the daily reporting there are plenty who get picked up on Day 11.
So while a one off test at (or before the border) will definitely stop some cases from getting out it won't come anywhere near catching them all.
The overall thrust is that the World needs to learn to live with the virus.
I think he's suggesting bio passports, so those traveling internationally can be assessed for entry into destination. Conditions of entry (quarantine, etc.) can be tailored to their history.
If you think about it, Covid is a gentle exposure to the risks of relatively unvetted international travel.
IMO bio passports are inevitable, just a question of when.
-
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
they were in a no win situation to manage a border that is not closed outright, but they took the plaudits when we rode our luck for 3 months, they need to take some heat now.
I can excuse leaks, this virus is unforgiving in terms of its ability to infiltrate. The lack of testing is unforgivable
It certainly is if elimination is the strategy!
-
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357747
damn fine cricketer was Shaun pollack
-
@Billy-Tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357747
damn fine cricketer was Shaun pollack
Incredible stats. All those wanking on about Ben Stokes ( whose batting of late has been very good I will admit ).......take a look at how good Pollock was. Easily the best Ginga All Rounder of all time.
-
@MN5 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Billy-Tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357747
damn fine cricketer was Shaun pollack
Incredible stats. All those wanking on about Ben Stokes ( whose batting of late has been very good I will admit ).......take a look at how good Pollock was. Easily the best Ginga All Rounder of all time.
He's got nothing on prime Frans Botha.
-
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357981
I've been pushing for the army to run the quarantine for ages. Apparently Winnie agreed with me, which is concerning
-
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Any different from the days when pilots would stay up all night drinking and fucking and then have a hair of the dog before firing the engines?
When did they stop that? Fuck, glad that I gave up when I did.
-
If Adern is warning against "border perfection" - I.E. expect there to be issues at the border and breaches - then why in the ever living fuck are we striving for complete elimination? That means we have to keep locking down every time it gets in. Which is just such a fucking absurd idea I don't even know where to begin. We are facing economic ruin at the hands of an idiotic government.
-
@No-Quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If Adern is warning against "border perfection" - I.E. expect there to be issues at the border and breaches - then why in the ever living fuck are we striving for complete elimination? That means we have to keep locking down every time it gets in. Which is just such a fucking absurd idea I don't even know where to begin. We are facing economic ruin at the hands of an idiotic government.
She is being ridiculous. Perfection, as we have already seen, is unattainable. What I expect is a robust testing regime for border and quarantine workers. Just as Trump has his sleepy Joe, we have our clueless Cindy