Black Lives Matter
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@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@MajorRage said in Black Lives Matter:
Easy fellas.
My views on BLM are not positive but I’m extremely confident that the behavior above is only from the extremist end and not part of anything official BLM.
There's an official part of BLM?
Do tell.You think Lewis, EPL, Starmer, met, just to name a few, took the knee on the back of things like this?
It’s not all bad.
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@MajorRage I think the average person supporting blm is supporting them for positive reasons, standing up for what they assume is racism based on the info they get from mainstream sources. They don't see the riots, don't know that the martyrs are almost exclusively rapists/violent offenders resisting arrest. The organisation however is extremist. I'm still yet to see any evidence proving otherwise, happy to see some if anyone has any. Politicians, celebs and corporations believe a twitter echo chamber that has been banning dissenting voices for the last 4 years is real life so they are jumping on what they think is the virtuous side..and as videos like in this spread they are increasingly looking like supporters of domestic terrorism.
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@Rembrandt said in Black Lives Matter:
@MajorRage I think the average person supporting blm is supporting them for positive reasons, standing up for what they assume is racism based on the info they get from mainstream sources. They don't see the riots, don't know that the martyrs are almost exclusively rapists/violent offenders resisting arrest. The organisation however is extremist. I'm still yet to see any evidence proving otherwise, happy to see some if anyone has any. Politicians, celebs and corporations believe a twitter echo chamber that has been banning dissenting voices for the last 4 years is real life so they are jumping on what they think is the virtuous side..and as videos like in this spread they are increasingly looking like supporters of domestic terrorism.
This is a great call. The amount of FB friends I have who have changed their profile pics and seem ignorant of a lot of what is going on is quite startling.
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@MN5 Yeah I've had to rain on a couple of facebook parades. "umm you know he had a warrant for raping an underaged girl right?" attaching documentation proving it. Thankfully at this stage raping children is still frowned upon by even the most ardent blm supporters.
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@Rembrandt said in Black Lives Matter:
They don't see the riots, don't know that the martyrs are almost exclusively rapists/violent offenders resisting arrest.
Not sure I love his argument. Why does the rap sheet of some of these people matter when they are brutally gunned down by police? In the case of George Floyd he clearly wasn't a nice man, but that doesn't justify his treatment.
It's the same standard you apply to Avi Yemini on the Auspol thread.
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@Rembrandt said in Black Lives Matter:
@MajorRage I think the average person supporting blm is supporting them for positive reasons, standing up for what they assume is racism based on the info they get from mainstream sources. They don't see the riots, don't know that the martyrs are almost exclusively rapists/violent offenders resisting arrest. The organisation however is extremist. I'm still yet to see any evidence proving otherwise, happy to see some if anyone has any. Politicians, celebs and corporations believe a twitter echo chamber that has been banning dissenting voices for the last 4 years is real life so they are jumping on what they think is the virtuous side..and as videos like in this spread they are increasingly looking like supporters of domestic terrorism.
There has to be a separation between the words and the sentiment behind them, and the organisation of the same name. Because clearly they are about two different things
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Everybody has their own idea on what Black Lives Matter is or means.
Everybody has their own idea on who blm represents
Everybody has their own idea on where blm applies
Everybody has their own idea on what blm seeks to address.
Everybody has their own motivations for supporting blm
But central to all this is ignoring data, focus on outcomes and engineer backwards for the cause - white supremacy ( with no examples, only society outcomes and a disingenuous warping of history).
Nobody can answer the who, where, what questions definitively. Can you?
There is no common or consistent message other than historical and present white supremacy and an obvious strategy that is hideous:
Fight racism with more racism.
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@barbarian said in Black Lives Matter:
@Rembrandt said in Black Lives Matter:
They don't see the riots, don't know that the martyrs are almost exclusively rapists/violent offenders resisting arrest.
Not sure I love his argument. Why does the rap sheet of some of these people matter when they are brutally gunned down by police? In the case of George Floyd he clearly wasn't a nice man, but that doesn't justify his treatment.
It's the same standard you apply to Avi Yemini on the Auspol thread.
agreed, the content of the character has no bearing on the principle, a concession we all must make in order to receive rights and a civil society.
Your example of George Floyd will cause more problems when the defence and autopsy shows that the police treatment of floyd for the entire interaction didn't cause his death. It's simply not an example of police brutality.
I don't know how that will affect the blm movement and supporters
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@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
Your example of George Floyd will cause more problems when the defence and autopsy shows that the police treatment of floyd for the entire interaction didn't cause his death. It's simply not an example of police brutality.
I don't know how that will affect the blm movement and supporters
What are you basing that prediction on? Haven't read anything about that possibility, not that I'm discounting it.
Even if that's the case I don't think it affects the movement at all.
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@barbarian entire video footage and I trusted toxicology reports from my echo chamber commentators, ( I know but what else is there?)
However, here's an article from a "sympathetic" news source outside of my echo chamber that is enough to muddy the waters with toxicological info and a lack of trauma to indicate asphyxiation.
Oh and Covid pops up to further cast doubt, as it is want to do 🙂
"This medical examiner's report does not mention asphyxiation. However, according to prosecutors, in charging documents filed last week, early results "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."
The medical examiner's report also details blunt-force injuries to the skin of Floyd's head, face and upper lip, as well as the shoulders, hands and elbows and bruising of the wrists consistent with handcuffs.
Signed by Dr. Andrew M. Baker, it says Floyd had tested positive for the novel coronavirus on April 3. A post-mortem nasal swab confirmed that diagnosis. The report notes that because a positive result for coronavirus can persist for weeks after the disease has resolved, "the result most likely reflects asymptomatic but persistent ... positivity from previous infection."
In addition to fentanyl and methamphetamine, the toxicology report from the autopsy showed that Floyd also had cannabinoids in his system when he died.
Floyd also had heart disease, hypertension and sickle cell trait — a mostly asymptomatic form of the more serious sickle cell disease, an inherited blood disorder that primarily affects African Americans."
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@Frank quite right, it's entirely messy and not as straight forward as we've been lead to believe. The interactions with the police on video will feature in the trial.
But this complicated instance of 30 odd minutes is the cornerstone of a movement that will cause much turmoil for our kids over the next 10+ years.
A movement that no one can adequately define, yet will be universally present in our lives
Look out for the rise of "anti-racism". That will divide us further into racists and non racists
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@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@canefan agree it could, but I ain't no coroner or even a layman on what causes death by asphyxiation.
He complained of not being able to breathe more times while unrestrained than on the ground🤔
I'm going to stick my neck out here (unfortunate phrase), and contrary to some people's opinions, I have never suffocated anyone but, yeah, kneeling on someone's throat is likely to have consequences. Not a big believer in that sort of coincidence myself.
He wasn't going to die in those 8 minutes otherwise, would be my assumption.
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@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@canefan agree it could, but I ain't no coroner or even a layman on what causes death by asphyxiation.
He complained of not being able to breathe more times while unrestrained than on the ground🤔
And if he had covid....
The bolded statements are related. Then he went quiet and the officer stayed on him. You can make someone unconscious in less than a minute by cutting off their air supply. After that the person can die within minutes if air supply and breathing is not restored. Basically if a person stops breathing their chance of survival of a cardiac event drops 10% every minute. 8 minutes is plenty to render a person in poor shape
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@Snowy and 100% fair enough mate.
Unfortunately or fortunately, we have to get right into the weeds on this one and examine everything including the amount of pressure the cop was exerting and if, when agreeing to Floyd's request to be put on the ground the officer was restraining him with an (at the time) officially sanctioned police restrainment technique.
The video before is the puzzling thing. There has been a lot of stock invested in the brutal, intentional murder narrative.
But whatever, it's all a bit irrelevant now as blm has become a thing and as vague as its goals and objectives are, the justification of the 2020 resurrection of BLM similarly seems to not matter so much either.
Wonder what 2024 will look like🙂
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@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
we have to get right into the weeds on this one and examine everything including the amount of pressure the cop was exerting and if, when agreeing to Floyd's request to be put on the ground the officer was restraining him with an (at the time) officially sanctioned police restrainment technique.
The former we will never know, the latter will come out I guess as a police restraint technique.
They probably got that one wrong, given that he died.