Black Lives Matter
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@barbarian Resisting arrest 100% comes in to play. If the police are picking you up because of a warrant for rape, from the home of a rape victim that also comes into play, as does knowing someone is a violent felon especially with a history of armed assault . Unsurprisingly the fella who died over the weekend resulting in the Lancaster, Pennsylvania riots was attacking a police officer with a knife and has a history of 4 previous stabbings..the police called to help from a women whom the dead fella was abusing. That's all pretty different than 'Avi is a bit mean to people that he interviews'
Although I try to avoid it I still get the nauseating mainstream news coverage painting George Floyd and Jacob who-gives-a-fuck as some sort of saintly figures without even mentioning the full known circumstances such as 911 call, reason for the warrant leading to arrest, video footage showing a more complete and potentially complex picture. Media is no longer about informing its about telling you how to feel and the end result is mayhem on the streets and actual innocent lives ruined.
Can you give me an example of a black man brutally gunned down by police who wasn't resisting arrest or even fighting with police? Absolute genuine question. I can give a few white guys but they don't count for some reason.
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@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
But it's not indicative of other police officers
Absolutely not. There will be plenty of good guys. How the other officers didn't respond is beyond me. One was Chinese heritage, one other mixed (Mexican?) race. I can't remember because it it isn't about race to me.
Police brutality, procedures and where that ends? Good place to start? I also have massive support for the police, it is a tough job, and the lines are blurred how far they go - but killing people? That's pushing it.
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@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
How the other officers didn't respond is beyond me. One was Chinese heritage, one other mixed (Mexican?) race. I can't remember because it it isn't about race to me.My memory tells me the other officers were very junior in service. Police forces around the world are very aware of the reluctance of junior officers to intervene when a senior officer is perceived to be overstepping the mark. There is now quite a bit of education around this, highlighting that if something goes wrong and you do nothing to intervene you are just as culpable. It still takes balls to step in though. Police can be very brutal towards their own.
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@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
Random thought: is the best analogy of Black Lives Matter the Greens political party? A fine premise but goes a bit haywire on execution and reasonable solutions.
Decent. Great idea (environment) hijacked by not entirely related agenda (socialism)
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@Crazy-Horse said in Black Lives Matter:
@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
How the other officers didn't respond is beyond me. One was Chinese heritage, one other mixed (Mexican?) race. I can't remember because it it isn't about race to me.My memory tells me the other officers were very junior in service. Police forces around the world are very aware of the reluctance of junior officers to intervene when a senior officer is perceived to be overstepping the mark. There is now quite a bit of education around this, highlighting that if something goes wrong and you do nothing to intervene you are just as culpable. It still takes balls to step in though. Police can be very brutal towards their own.
Is there anything in police regs around an obligation to assist? I mean, we can argue the different autopsy reports to ascertain whether this was murder or manslaughter or neither, but is there some lesser charge around forcibly detaining while not helping someone clearly in distress? Appreciate it could be very different in the States (and State by State).
Its kind like dying from choking on a chicken wing you ate voluntarily while someone pins you down instead of whacking you on the back. Technically you died from self-inflicted wounds, but the fella sitting on you sure didn't help matters...
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@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crazy-Horse said in Black Lives Matter:
@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
How the other officers didn't respond is beyond me. One was Chinese heritage, one other mixed (Mexican?) race. I can't remember because it it isn't about race to me.My memory tells me the other officers were very junior in service. Police forces around the world are very aware of the reluctance of junior officers to intervene when a senior officer is perceived to be overstepping the mark. There is now quite a bit of education around this, highlighting that if something goes wrong and you do nothing to intervene you are just as culpable. It still takes balls to step in though. Police can be very brutal towards their own.
Is there anything in police regs around an obligation to assist? I mean, we can argue the different autopsy reports to ascertain whether this was murder or manslaughter or neither, but is there some lesser charge around forcibly detaining while not helping someone clearly in distress? Appreciate it could be very different in the States (and State by State).
Its kind like dying from choking on a chicken wing you ate voluntarily while someone pins you down instead of whacking you on the back. Technically you died from self-inflicted wounds, but the fella sitting on you sure didn't help matters...
Yes police are obligated to assist. I would imagine the obligation is worldwide, at least in the western world. We are getting trained more in tactical first aid. For example, it used to be 'acceptable' assistance for police to just call for an ambulance after they shot someone. We were not trained to do anything further. Now police are obligated to render first aid by plugging holes and applying tourniquets etc following a shooting.
We are also trained to monitor people closely following restraint, especially following a struggle. One of the first things we are expected to do once someone is under control is to at least put them in the recovery position and monitor breathing. Lying on top of someone for a prolonged time following a struggle can cause them life threatening problems, especially if they are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or have an underlying health issue.
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@Crazy-Horse thanks for that
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@Crazy-Horse said in Black Lives Matter:
@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
How the other officers didn't respond is beyond me. One was Chinese heritage, one other mixed (Mexican?) race. I can't remember because it it isn't about race to me.My memory tells me the other officers were very junior in service. Police forces around the world are very aware of the reluctance of junior officers to intervene when a senior officer is perceived to be overstepping the mark. There is now quite a bit of education around this, highlighting that if something goes wrong and you do nothing to intervene you are just as culpable. It still takes balls to step in though. Police can be very brutal towards their own.
Yep. Hierarchies. Authority figures.
Exactly the same on a flight deck, there have been examples where a first officer didn't say anything and ended up dead, along with everybody else.Never question the Captain mentality, and is flat out wrong. Cockpit gradient it is called for us, and yes it is being trained out of both Captains and every other pilot. Cultural too, it is stronger in Asian areas (Korean Airlines had a huge problem with it and got some Americans in to "re-educate"). Successfully I think. It was after the Guam crash. A couple of hundred dead and the flight engineer knew it was going to happen, spoke up but the Captain wouldn't listen.
Not been such a problem in NZ, Aus, our guys speak up as a rule and the Captains are more aware of how they can miss things that somebody else has seen. Your biggest asset as a Captain is your crew. They will save your bacon, and everybody knows how much I love bacon.
Good to hear that it is being taught in the police as well (not the bacon bit).
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'A black teenager who was killed by police'
or with more of that pesky context
'A black teenager who only minutes before taken part in a drive-by shooting against another black youth then upon being pulled up by police in the identified vehicle resisted arrest and was shot'
Sad but hardly a martyr worth protesting over unless you believe police should just let armed murderers choose to avoid arrest if they want (and potentially shoot police in the process)
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Cop shoots at dog and kills lady in the crossfire. I mean what the fuck is wrong with these guys? Its not the movies, bystanders get shot!
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It seems clear that for some at least, BLM is about opportunities to start arguments with random people about anything at all, so long as you can tie it in some way to the concept that a black person could have died.
This woman is taking a shop worker to task because in catching two shoplifters who happened to be black, the police could have come and shot at these shoplifters and they could have been killed. It appears it is the responsibility of everybody never to call the police if the perpetrator of a crime is black.
I can imagine the endless satisfaction of the woman who filmed this, basking in the acclaim of her friends. If she can save just one life, it will all have been worth it!
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@JC My favourite part.
Crazy lady : "Just listen to yourself you work with black folks"What is it with these liberal types thinking black people are innately criminal and as such being against crime is racist?
I'd be pretty sure his black colleagues are against folk shoplifting in the store regardless of colour.
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@JC said in Black Lives Matter:
It seems clear that for some at least, BLM is about opportunities to start arguments with random people about anything at all, so long as you can tie it in some way to the concept that a black person could have died.
This woman is taking a shop worker to task because in catching two shoplifters who happened to be black, the police could have come and shot at these shoplifters and they could have been killed. It appears it is the responsibility of everybody never to call the police if the perpetrator of a crime is black.
I can imagine the endless satisfaction of the woman who filmed this, basking in the acclaim of her friends. If she can save just one life, it will all have been worth it!
Why the fuck do these morons with phones think they have the right to do this? I hope she gets taken apart on whatever social media she shares that on. And I hope the kid gets a promotion for doing everything right
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@JC said in Black Lives Matter:
It seems clear that for some at least, BLM is about opportunities to start arguments with random people about anything at all, so long as you can tie it in some way to the concept that a black person could have died.
This woman is taking a shop worker to task because in catching two shoplifters who happened to be black, the police could have come and shot at these shoplifters and they could have been killed. It appears it is the responsibility of everybody never to call the police if the perpetrator of a crime is black.
I can imagine the endless satisfaction of the woman who filmed this, basking in the acclaim of her friends. If she can save just one life, it will all have been worth it!
I would have told her to mind her own business when she asked her first question.