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The Silver Fern

Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Rugby Matches
allblacksargentina
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Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November
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  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to Yeetyaah on last edited by
    #1179

    @Donsteppa said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    Coles on the wing early, what were the odds.

    @Yeetyaah said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    Get off the wing and do your job Coles.

    It is his job

    DonsteppaD 1 Reply Last reply
    7
  • H Offline
    H Offline
    hydro11
    replied to Siam on last edited by
    #1180

    @Siam said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @No-Quarter Looking at the stats i wouldnt call what Jordie did anything close to 'dominated'.

    Will Jordan on the other hand 'dominated' super rugby this year.

    Super Rugby Aotearoa 2020 Stats

    Carries
    Will Jordan - 88
    Jordie Barrett - 83

    Clean breaks
    Will Jordan - 1st in competition with 15,
    Jordie is not in the top 10

    Defenders beaten
    Will Jordan - 1st in competition with 39
    Jordie - 6th with 22

    Metres made
    Will Jordan - 1st in competition with 724
    Jordie is not in the top 10

    Offloads
    Will Jordan - 2nd in the competition with 9
    Jordie is not in the top 10

    Tries
    Will Jordan - 1st in the competition with 6
    Jordie is not in the top 10

    In a pro sport where every team employs an analyst, and coaches refer to stats at every press conference and where all players have laptop "homework" those stats are damning.
    Perceptions versus data. Not a besmirching of JB, but a solid case for inconsistent "hunch" selections

    Jordie was injured for the first two games, then came back and won the Hurricanes the next four matches. Short memories. By all means back Jordan for 14 but Jordie was the MVP of SRA and should have been picked to start at full back.

    P 1 Reply Last reply
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  • K Offline
    K Offline
    kev
    replied to nostrildamus on last edited by
    #1181

    @nostrildamus that is AB pattern. In structured play he runs the pattern. In unstructured play no one puts another player into better space with the timing of the pass. To say he is not a distributor is incorrect.

    nostrildamusN 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • K Offline
    K Offline
    kev
    replied to Kiwiwomble on last edited by
    #1182

    @Kiwiwomble That is the AB pattern not the player. Distinguish between the plays being called and the skill set of the player.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • Victor MeldrewV Online
    Victor MeldrewV Online
    Victor Meldrew
    replied to kev on last edited by
    #1183

    @kev

    Don't get me wrong, I really rate him - just not as a 12.

    Maybe some more time in SR would help.

    K 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • K Offline
    K Offline
    kev
    replied to Winger on last edited by
    #1184

    @Winger said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @Winger You mean the tight game that Jordan blew up to 38-0 when he came on?
    You realise he scored 2 tries and set up the 3rd to make it 38-0 right? You know he didnt come in 80th minute right?

    Richie was brilliant in one game. But poor to ordinary in the others. Clarke looked a super star in his first game but not close to that level since

    I prefer to form an opinion based on more than a few minutes of test rugby

    Agree totally. Yes great performance at the death by Jordan when the Argies where trying to run the ball after being pounded for 70 minutes by a brutal AB attack. They opened up because they needed to, made mistakes and game over. But that was set up by no mistake AB rugby where guys were running into heavy contact for long periods of time.

    We tend to demonise players who make a mistake and then go overboard on players who have a good highlights package.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • K Offline
    K Offline
    kev
    replied to Victor Meldrew on last edited by
    #1185

    @Victor-Meldrew I would prefer him at 13 because instead of being the player on the crash and the player being missed, he would be the decision maker and distributor. Those are his best skills along with D. I think they moved him in because he lacks top end pace but so did Conrad Smith and he would one of our finest.

    1 Reply Last reply
    2
  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to Donsteppa on last edited by
    #1186

    @Donsteppa said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    How?

    Indeed

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • BerniesCornerB Offline
    BerniesCornerB Offline
    BerniesCorner
    wrote on last edited by
    #1187

    The way rugby is played now with subs an important part of the game there has been plenty of opportunity to try things out.
    Jordie at 15, Jordan at 14, Sotutu at 8 should have all been given a decent roll of the dice. Not to mention the motivation it would have brought to the table. Open side flanker shouldn't be locked in either. Sotutu - Savea - Ioane would be an option too.

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • DonsteppaD Offline
    DonsteppaD Offline
    Donsteppa
    replied to booboo on last edited by
    #1188

    @booboo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @Donsteppa said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    Coles on the wing early, what were the odds.

    @Yeetyaah said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    Get off the wing and do your job Coles.

    It is his job

    I’d have to rewatch a few games to double check, but my impression is that it isn’t Taylor’s job to the same degree.

    That defenders of Coles often cite Fitzy from 25 years ago is instructive...

    taniwharugbyT boobooB 2 Replies Last reply
    0
  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to Kirwan on last edited by
    #1189

    @Kirwan said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    Told you Jordan would get a cheesey try. It’s his trademark

    Think it's a golf saying about better to be lucky thsn good.

    Mind you helps if you're both.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • B Offline
    B Offline
    Big Bok
    replied to MajorRage on last edited by
    #1190

    @MajorRage Perhaps in the minority, but I rate NZ commentary most highly. Perhaps because they lay it on the line.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to Donsteppa on last edited by taniwharugby
    #1191

    @Donsteppa i think it depends who they have, they like to station Coles wide whereas use Taylor in closer allowing someone else to hang on the wing.

    Pretty sure its just how they are set up rather than Coles shirking his duties

    That said, I haven't watched yet, so will be interesting to see how shit a number of players were based on comments here.

    boobooB N 2 Replies Last reply
    3
  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to Donsteppa on last edited by
    #1192

    @Donsteppa said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @booboo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @Donsteppa said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    Coles on the wing early, what were the odds.

    @Yeetyaah said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    Get off the wing and do your job Coles.

    It is his job

    I’d have to rewatch a few games to double check, but my impression is that it isn’t Taylor’s job to the same degree.

    That defenders of Coles often cite Fitzy from 25 years ago is instructive...

    Wasn't so much your comment but as I've gone through the thread I'm amazed at how many seem to think he's just rocking his own tactics.

    At the risk of sparking another dull anti Foster rant, he's doing exactly what the coach is asking him too.

    Good point re Taylor though. May be he's not as good at it? Or has different strengths so the tactics change to suit? Or another forward takes on that role?

    DonsteppaD BovidaeB 2 Replies Last reply
    3
  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #1193

    @taniwharugby great minds 🙂

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to Kirwan on last edited by
    #1194

    @Kirwan said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @bayimports said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    cheesy shite times two

    Seriously, he has this knack.

    Further to my comment above about being lucky ... Reece had that last year.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • DonsteppaD Offline
    DonsteppaD Offline
    Donsteppa
    replied to booboo on last edited by Donsteppa
    #1195

    @booboo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @Donsteppa said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @booboo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @Donsteppa said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    Coles on the wing early, what were the odds.

    @Yeetyaah said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    Get off the wing and do your job Coles.

    It is his job

    I’d have to rewatch a few games to double check, but my impression is that it isn’t Taylor’s job to the same degree.

    That defenders of Coles often cite Fitzy from 25 years ago is instructive...

    Wasn't so much your comment but as I've gone through the thread I'm amazed at how many seem to think he's just rocking his own tactics.

    At the risk of sparking another dull anti Foster rant, he's doing exactly what the coach is asking him too.

    Good point re Taylor though. May be he's not as good at it? Or has different strengths so the tactics change to suit? Or another forward takes on that role?

    If it's clearly a coaching tactic, that's fine, some will like it, some won't (I don't, given Coles was the starting hooker in a tight five that got outplayed in all aspects by Argentina two weeks ago).

    I sometimes wonder about the 'lack of a Plan B' that the All Blacks occasionally get thrown at them... that's on the players as well as the coaching staff, and a senior player arguably should be one of the first to react.

    JB on the right wing rather than at fullback is also a coaching/selection issue, but most don't caveat their "WTF are you doing now Jordie!" live posts with that either 🙂

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to nostrildamus on last edited by
    #1196

    @nostrildamus said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

    @Winger You mean the tight game that Jordan blew up to 38-0 when he came on?
    You realise he scored 2 tries and set up the 3rd to make it 38-0 right? You know he didnt come in 80th minute right?

    Yeah it was really fucking nail-biting stuff at 17-0, 70% possession, 80% territory and Argentina having made nearly four times as many tackles as us. So surprised that our bench players made an impact given how tight it was.

    Jordan did make those tries out of nothing. He wasn't helped to some cushy tries by his team mates.

    I kind of agree with @Winger 's reply to this.

    His team mates forced the Argies to trying some desperate tactics. Jordan didn't make them on his own.

    A nostrildamusN P 3 Replies Last reply
    3
  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to MajorRage on last edited by
    #1197

    @MajorRage was going to question that the international audience would have got Fox comms, but you're in the UK huh? And got the Sky comms not the hosts?

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • TimT Away
    TimT Away
    Tim
    wrote on last edited by Tim
    #1198

    At 1:40:20 you can see the flip clean out of Cane:

    SiamS 1 Reply Last reply
    2

Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November
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