Flag
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<p>so preliminary results are due out tonight, which if all the polls are correct will show a clear majority for the status quo (talking like 60%), however, if it is close, then the final results may not be known until the end of the month.</p>
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<p>Apparently over 2,000,000 have voted, which is pretty good, and despite all the vitriol (mainly form the ones wanting it to stay the same IMO) indicates that this is something Kiwis feel strongly about, one way or the other. You'd like to think those that are wasting their vote for the status quo because it is 'Keys pet project' will be of little significance come the final count with most.</p>
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<p>I expect there will also be plenty of crowing about 'we told you NZ didn't want change' or 'what a waste of money' etc....Winston Peters will no doubt be the first to offer his opinion</p>
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<p>Many have also bitched about the process used to select the proposed flag, but I haven't really seen any suggested process I thought would have been any better.</p>
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<p>It is a bit sad that this is likely to fall over, and while I wasn't sold on the Lockwood design initially, the more I had seen it out and about flying, the more I liked it.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="566852" data-time="1458778496">
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<p>I am just one person, but I voted for the time in 17 years. I actually only voted to offset the view of one leftard (I f'n love that word) whose voting against it because they don't like JK.</p>
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<p>Go the change!</p>
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<p>That's the main reason I voted too :)</p>
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<p>I consider myself slightly left on the political spectrum. But the personal attacks on John Key have swayed me to vote for change.</p>
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<p>Still reckon it'll be closer than people think... just on a hunch that there's some socially desirable responding going on to the pollsters, and the high turnout.</p>
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<p>I'm one of the seven above who chose current flag - but I still spent a long time thinking it through (again!) once the ballot paper was in front of me.</p> -
<p>It's certainly going to be interesting. The polls don't match in any way the conversations that I hear and I wonder whether that is because those voting for change have kept their thoughts to themselves to avoid argument or whether it is the opposite and now they have voted they are singing loudly about it.</p>
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<p>Even though I was in the camp of 'I want change but can't we find a better option', the more I see the Lockwood flying the more I like it. It still looks terrible drawn flat but when waving in the breeze it actually looks quite good.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="566863" data-time="1458782130">
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<p>It's certainly going to be interesting. The polls don't match in any way the conversations that I hear and I wonder whether that is because those voting for change have kept their thoughts to themselves to avoid argument or whether it is the opposite and now they have voted they are singing loudly about it.</p>
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<p>Even though I was in the camp of 'I want change but can't we find a better option', the more I see the Lockwood flying the more I like it. It still looks terrible drawn flat but when waving in the breeze it actually looks quite good.</p>
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<p>I am still struggling with reconciling the polls to my personal interactions as well. I suspect it is just a silent majority that want to retain.</p> -
<p>hopefully with the amount of abuse that anyone who dared say they liked the new flag and wanted change got, the 'majority' have then chosen not to express opinion or bothered voting in all these polls, which I have not done on the flag.</p>
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<p>I have generally steered clear of offering an opinion on it, except in pointing out peoples flawed arguments on social media.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="566868" data-time="1458783583">
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<p>hopefully with the amount of abuse that anyone who dared say they liked the new flag and wanted change got, the 'majority' have then chosen not to express opinion or bothered voting in all these polls, which I have not done on the flag.</p>
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<p>I have generally steered clear of offering an opinion on it, except in pointing out peoples flawed arguments on social media.</p>
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<p>I was amazed to find that my ballot paper actually asked me which of two flags I preferred.</p>
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<p>I expected questions about John Key, the cost of the referendum, whether we looked too much like the Australian flag, or whether I approved of the process...</p> -
<p>I guess the only issue is, all the leftards (just for you MR) will cry of a rigged and corrupt process if the new flag does somehow win based on all the polls that have been done in the lead in.</p>
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<p>I think it could be an age group thing. I generally associate with people in the 30-50 age group. I think maybe more older people and younger people want the old flag?</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="566859" data-time="1458780812">
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<p>I'm one of the seven above who chose current flag -</p>
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<p>Fuck you! I hate you, you are a traitor, lacky to the corporations, just a puppet to Andrew Little. If we keep the current flag and enter TPPA, we are selling our sovereignty down the river. You rick prick asshat</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="566875" data-time="1458784470">
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<p>Fuck you! I hate you, you are a traitor, lacky to the corporations, just a puppet to Andrew Little. If we keep the current flag and enter TPPA, we are selling our sovereignty down the river. You rick prick asshat</p>
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<p>You forgot Shill and Apologist for The Man :)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="566871" data-time="1458783950">
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<p>I guess the only issue is, all the leftards (just for you MR) will cry of a rigged and corrupt process if the new flag does somehow win based on all the polls that have been done in the lead in.</p>
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<p>My favourite was still the personal abuse I took for suggesting the polls were 60/40 in favour of retaining, from some asshat who claimed it was more like 75/25 and I was just some full of shit Willis etc etc.</p> -
<p>I see JK has come out and say the flag referendum will not define is legacy and he's never thought of it that way.</p>
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<p>As they were saying on radio - whilst correct that's still a bit of a Tui billboard and would he have thought differently if the polls were suggesting change.</p>
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<p>I have a sneaking suspicion that the vote could go the way of the new flag</p>
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<p>... and just look at my tipping results</p> -
<p>Can anybody remember at any point in time where polls have ended up being completely wrong? I can't, and for that reason, I can't see it changing.</p>
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<p>My WT relatives reaction if it does though will be nothing short of SENSATIONAL.</p> -
<p>All I know is that Donsteppa better go into hiding if it is retained by one vote.....</p>
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Jim Bolger's most memorable quote in a very beige career was bugger the pollsters after a shock election night result in 1993 (the last FPP election).<br><br>Pre-vote polls showed a comfortable majority for the Nats but as votes were counted it looked like a hung parliament.<br><br>In the end one seat changed hands in Nationals favour after special votes and they cleverly made a Labour MP Speaker giving them an effective majority of two in the new parliament.<br><br>Since then Bolger's quote is rolled out at every election by the party behind in the polls. I think it was Annette King who used it last time, but since then they have been depressingly accurate.<br><br>Upsets were more likely under FPP Labour lost in 75 and 78 despite winning a majority of the vote, (a large reason for the push for as it depended on the geographical spread of your votes whether they effectively counted.
