Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Colin Miller is probably the closest we've seen.
Shane Thompson transitioned from seam to spin and was not as good. Around 2003-4ish Scott Styris was semi-seriously trying to develop his offspin to become a second spinning option but I don't think we saw it at international level.
#booboo
I nearly jumped in with "Colin Funky Miller" but t thought I'd read the thread first
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@scribe said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Forecast for Southampton at end of this week is not looking great at all.
I'm doing a trackday at Thruxton on Friday morning, so Ive been keeping an eye on the weather down those ways.
The headline in the BBC app doesn't really correlate well with the the hour by hour forecast. If you look, it's <20% chance of rain at any point in the day. The worst weather is also scheduled for Thursday, which is thunderstorms. I think 50% of the time they forecast thunderstorms, it ends up being blue sky. You need humidity much higher than the UK regularly gets for thunder.
In other words ... don't panic yet!
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I think as its a one-off test we should select 6 batsmen, and back all 4 seamers (obviously Jamieson is a lock) to bowl 20+ overs in a day if required. So add in Young or Blundell at 6, drop Watling to 7. KW to bowl a few part time overs.
None of CdG/Satnav/Mitchell are really good enough to take up a spot in the #1 team in the world for a championship final! On a non-spin friendly pitch Ajaz isn't going to trouble the Indians much.
Latham
Conway
Williamson
Taylor
Nicholls
Young/Blundell
Watling
Jamieson
Wagner
Southee
Boult -
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@tewaio said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@siam said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Weather forecast makes it harder for the wicket to dry out like the Edgbaston one. A spinner not so necessary?
Yep, and damper conditions should suit our swing bowlers. Ideal.
It's not going to be a sub continent style battle of attrition when we bowl. We have 3 bowlers who have taken wickets in the English series, and they might have issues with the bounce of the Jamieson delivery
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@tewaio said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@siam said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Weather forecast makes it harder for the wicket to dry out like the Edgbaston one. A spinner not so necessary?
Yep, and damper conditions should suit our swing bowlers. Ideal.
Should suit Bumrah too...
The Indians have a handy seam attack nowadays.
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@crazy-horse said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
The Indians have a handy seam attack nowadays.
This is paramount. You don't beat Australia at home using 5 or 6 quicks without being bloody good. The biggest improvement in Indian cricket and well capable of getting 20 wickets on a seamer.
This final has EVERYTHING.
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I agree with the 6 batsmen 4 seamers approach. I don't think either side is going to pile on 600/4 so attrition shouldn't really come into it. We will want to keep the pressure on their whole innings with quality seam bowling which is our strength, and right now we have 4 extremely high quality seamers.
I'd slot Young at 6 to bat with BJ at 7, that gives us depth in the order which may help push us towards 400 if things go pretty well, which would be a very competitive total in a final.
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@no-quarter said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I agree with the 6 batsmen 4 seamers approach. I don't think either side is going to pile on 600/4 so attrition shouldn't really come into it. We will want to keep the pressure on their whole innings with quality seam bowling which is our strength, and right now we have 4 extremely high quality seamers.
I'd slot Young at 6 to bat with BJ at 7, that gives us depth in the order which may help push us towards 400 if things go pretty well, which would be a very competitive total in a final.
I'm favouring that way too, but mostly because of the weather helping bowling loads. No way are the players going to do 6 continuous hours on the field each day. I'm a bit suss on not having a 5th bowler ( bowler workloads are different from the windies era) and to me that's akin to the 6/2 split of rugby substitutes - it can definitely work but you can also be unnecessarily exposed.
I've dialled up my " meh" factor for the 11th player. With the calibre of the other 10, it won't be his fault if we lose.
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@siam said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@no-quarter said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I agree with the 6 batsmen 4 seamers approach. I don't think either side is going to pile on 600/4 so attrition shouldn't really come into it. We will want to keep the pressure on their whole innings with quality seam bowling which is our strength, and right now we have 4 extremely high quality seamers.
I'd slot Young at 6 to bat with BJ at 7, that gives us depth in the order which may help push us towards 400 if things go pretty well, which would be a very competitive total in a final.
I'm favouring that way too, but mostly because of the weather helping bowling loads. No way are the players going to do 6 continuous hours on the field each day. I'm a bit suss on not having a 5th bowler ( bowler workloads are different from the windies era) and to me that's akin to the 6/2 split of rugby substitutes - it can definitely work but you can also be unnecessarily exposed.
I've dialled up my " meh" factor for the 11th player. With the calibre of the other 10, it won't be his fault if we lose.
The bowling load isn't a huge deal because of the sixth day - if it rains they will get a break and if it doesn't we can slow the over rate with impunity (see England at Lords') for a one off test - if Kane is suspended for the first Bangladesh test so be it.
From a bowling perspective I agree with you, but batting wise if Jamieson bats 7 and Southee 8 (as is the case with most sides including Patel) - then you do run a real risk of stranding a Williamson or Taylor in full stride earlier than usual and will rue not having another batting option. Both Young and Blundell would at least be a trusted partner to rotate the strike etc and let them keep playing their natural game. I know CdG and Mitchell have had good returns at test level at times too - butthey always seem to go with the momentum of the game and struggle against top tier bowling.
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
The bowling load isn't a huge deal because of the sixth day - if it rains they will get a break and if it doesn't we can slow the over rate with impunity (see England at Lords') for a one off test - if Kane is suspended for the first Bangladesh test so be it.
oh, this would be the most cynical of cricketing efforts. Slow to 12 overs per hour, let the bowlers have a rest, push into a sixth day if needed. Then if anyone complains just lead with
'like boundary countbacks, it's in the rules'
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It’s certainly been pretty hot over the last week in England and this continues until Thursday.
As we have all probably heard, tests in Southampton have been seam friendly recently with spinners not having anywhere the same success.
My big concern was Southampton being a bit drier and more spin friendly.
We can be very confident going into the final, great preparation and most players have had some success over the last 2 tests. I hope that our experiences in the last 2 finals we have played have meant that we now understand what is required to win a final and have the hunger to do so.
India will be very tough opposition though and are a very strong side. I hope our lead up in England will give us an edge that will ultimately prove to be enough.
