Carl Hayman
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@jc said in Carl Hayman:
NZ Herald are reporting that Carl Hayman has been diagnosed with early onset dementia. Poor bastard.
Former All Blacks superstar diagnosed with dementia, aged 41
He was once considered the best tighthead prop and highest-paid player in rugby.
Poor bugger. Goes a long way to explaining recent incident(s).
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Carl Hayman doesn’t want to forget
The former All Black great has been diagnosed with early-onset dementia at 41.
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Poor bastard
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@kirwan said in Carl Hayman:
Has this always been a problem? Or have recent rule changes and bigger, fitter players made it worse?
Feel terrible for the guy.
Firstly, that’s shit for Carl. TSF’s original thrashwank player.
Secondly, I think it’s been around for a while (see 95 Boks) but greater coverage and awareness means the issues are more widely known.
The stats in the article are nuts. 150k collisions.
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@kirwan said in Carl Hayman:
Has this always been a problem? Or have recent rule changes and bigger, fitter players made it worse?
Feel terrible for the guy.
A bit of both I think? Increasingly bigger players playing more games since the professional era. I think it's really started to come out into the open in the last few (5?) years, based on research done in the NFL.
Tricky one to sue as the RFU seem to have been pretty pro-active in tightening concussion protocols, then clamping down on anything head-high. Very recent guidelines have been sent out to limit contact training per week.
I read some of the research a while back on tackle height and probabilities of concussion on tackler/tackled which led to carding almost all head contact now. It was very data driven.
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“When I first started playing pro rugby I remember having a Players’ Association meeting and the conversation was all about having a global window and a shorter season. We’re still having the same conversations about rugby now. There’s a number of changes we can and have to make to help protect the players of the future.
“I look at the NFL again and they have a 17-game season across four-to-five months with the possibility of a couple of playoff games. You compare that to rugby with a 10-month season.
“There needs to be a discussion about what constitutes an acceptable volume of rugby.”
It's sad but this may be the catalyst for the club calendar to be severely curtailed and a maximum number of tests permitted each year.
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@antipodean said in Carl Hayman:
“When I first started playing pro rugby I remember having a Players’ Association meeting and the conversation was all about having a global window and a shorter season. We’re still having the same conversations about rugby now. There’s a number of changes we can and have to make to help protect the players of the future.
“I look at the NFL again and they have a 17-game season across four-to-five months with the possibility of a couple of playoff games. You compare that to rugby with a 10-month season.
“There needs to be a discussion about what constitutes an acceptable volume of rugby.”
It's sad but this may be the catalyst for the club calendar to be severely curtailed and a maximum number of tests permitted each year.
He was so in favour of a global window and a shorter season that he went to play in France. A country where club rugby is famous for its short seasons, not flogging players and a carefully managed rest period.
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@kirwan I can remember a kid I played against in the 1970s having to give up because of repeated concussions. He was still playing U16s at that stage. A body on the line openside flanker - easily their best player - made the big rep teams.
Will have got worse with bigger players and bigger collisions.
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@kirwan said in Carl Hayman:
Has this always been a problem? Or have recent rule changes and bigger, fitter players made it worse?
Feel terrible for the guy.
My old man regularly plays tennis with two former All Blacks of his era ( in their 70s ) and both have had hip replacements which they put down to their rugby careers. They both say they wouldn’t have survived in todays game but that might be just false modesty.
I think the bigger hits from bigger stronger guys in todays game is a massive factor, more so than boxing despite lots of fighters being bigger than their predecessors ( take the recent fight between Fury when 6 foot 9 defeated 6 foot 7 )
We all know that every Rugby player is a gym junkie these days and there are monsters running round in virtually every position. It has to be a factor.
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@kirwan said in Carl Hayman:
@mn5 need to speed the game up and have less subs to get the size off players then.
Absolutely. Impact subs who come on fired up with the sole intention of smashing tired ball carriers who have slogged it out for 60 minutes is a factor too.
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@kirwan said in Carl Hayman:
@mn5 need to speed the game up and have less subs to get the size off players then.
agreed, more tired players are also going to do less damage to each other
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@billy-tell said in Carl Hayman:
@antipodean said in Carl Hayman:
“When I first started playing pro rugby I remember having a Players’ Association meeting and the conversation was all about having a global window and a shorter season. We’re still having the same conversations about rugby now. There’s a number of changes we can and have to make to help protect the players of the future.
“I look at the NFL again and they have a 17-game season across four-to-five months with the possibility of a couple of playoff games. You compare that to rugby with a 10-month season.
“There needs to be a discussion about what constitutes an acceptable volume of rugby.”
It's sad but this may be the catalyst for the club calendar to be severely curtailed and a maximum number of tests permitted each year.
He was so in favour of a global window and a shorter season that he went to play in France. A country where club rugby is famous for its short seasons, not flogging players and a carefully managed rest period.
That's a strange rebuttal of the endorsement of a shorter playing calendar. Can you point to Hayman knowing the effects of playing as much as he did back then, or the realisation that it would be him who may pay the price? It may be the benefit of hindsight for affected players, but we're talking about what World Rugby knew and didn't do, and what can be done in the future.
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@kirwan said in Carl Hayman:
@mn5 need to speed the game up and have less subs to get the size off players then.
Definitely. The point has been made often enough that world Rugby's law interpretations have had a deleterious effect on the play of the game. Policies designed to improve player safety have predictably had the opposite effect.
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@kiwimurph said in Carl Hayman:
The former All Black great has been diagnosed with early-onset dementia at 41.
Pleased you shared the original. Quality piece of journalism from Dylan Cleaver. No issues with NZ Herald and others writing "matchers" but nice to recognise the journo whose work on this issue no doubt contributed to Hayman sharing his story with him.
EDIT: and I hasten to add, this isn't a dig at JC! It was good he got the convo going with the Herald story.
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