NZ tour of India
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@chris-b said in Other Cricket:
@mn5 If Timmy plays, I'm pretty sure we'll have Kyle at 7 - probably Tim at 8. Both a slot too high.
Lance - hell yes!!! He would have had a target the size of Ben Tamiefuna on his back.
Yep, we’re coming into cricket season on the fern which means the usual moaners will go on about Southee and how he needs to “bat responsibly” and seemingly ignoring the fact he’s one of the best seamers this country has produced.
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@chris-b said in Other Cricket:
Here's our squad for our World Test Championship series vs India - first of a new cycle.
Black Caps Test squad: Kane Williamson (c), Tom Blundell, Devon Conway, Henry Nicholls, Kyle Jamieson, Tom Latham, Ajaz Patel, Glenn Phillips, Rachin Ravindra, Mitchell Santner, Will Somerville, Tim Southee, Ross Taylor, Neil Wagner, Will Young.
Notably, despite being World Test Champions, we still only warrant a two test series vs the runners-up.
I was irked when I first heard that Trent Boult won't be touring but in India he is likely to be less affective so I am happy he will be wrapped in cotton wool for this one.
Still desperately want to win the series. India are going to be pretty filthy about going out in the group stage of T20 WC
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@hooroo In a strange sort of way, Trent not going could end up helping us.
It would be very hard to see the selectors leaving out one of Trent, Jamieson or Wags - even if conditions warranted it. And if they did leave one out, it would likely be Wags.
I think they'll be less inclined to play Timmy if conditions favour three spinners (and it is hard for me to believe the Indians will take us anywhere except pitches that are turning square*).
*Which possibly makes this WTC a bit counterproductive - if everyone plays their games on surfaces designed to most disadvantage their opposition.
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I don't think that they will, but I'd be very tempted to play Ravindra at 7 as the third spinner. He looked very promising in Bangladesh with bat and ball, I think the pitches that we'll get will mean we have to bat very deep...
- Latham
- Conway
- Williamson
- Taylor
- Nicholls
- Blundell
- Ravindra
- Jamieson
- Wagner
- Somerville
- Patel
Very mixed feelings about leaving Southee out of that mix, but I think there will be very little pace bowling - and with Jamieson having the edge on Kohli, and with Wags being a bowling machine and offering a completely different approach, that might be it.
If Santner could generate the pressure in Tests that he does in ODI's/T20's he'd also be an option. I suspect that would be instead of Ravindra, though for 'my' team it'd be a choice between Somerville, Southee, and Santner for the last spot.
Don't think they'll go that way, but armchair selections are always fun
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With none of the batters able to roll their arms over to provide back up seam, I would be surprised if they went with two seamers and three spinners.
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@crazy-horse said in Other Cricket:
With none of the batters able to roll their arms over to provide back up seam, I would be surprised if they went with two seamers and three spinners.
I think it will depend on whether there's a blade of grass on the pitch, or whether it's like the last three tests in India v. England...
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@crazy-horse They did last time we were in Kanpur.
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They've slightly stuffed up the squad again IMO, but only slightly.
Just the wrong Mitchell. Should be Darryl Mitchell and no Mitchell Santner.
I'm not entirely sure of my desired first 11. But I know it definitely includes the two specialist spinners Patel and Sommerville. Therefore only 2 seamers out of the 3 of Southee, Jamieson, Wagner.
The last place to balance that out should be either Daryl Mitchell or Rachin Ravindra - it's the batting this place should be primarily selected on. Therefore definitely not Santner.
But from the cattle they've given us, It's either Ravindra or Phillips. But they'll probably go Santner and play the 3rd seamer, not Sommerville, and we will score no runs and Patel can be seen off with not enough pressure at other end - and we will lose badly.
TBH. The zero cricket that Patel, Sommerville, Taylor have gotten due to lockdowns means we will be even more under-prepped than usual. So, bit moot.
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@rapido said in Other Cricket:
They've slightly stuffed up the squad again IMO, but only slightly.
Just the wrong Mitchell. Should be Darryl Mitchell and no Mitchell Santner.
I'm not entirely sure of my desired first 11. But I know it definitely includes the two specialist spinners Patel and Sommerville. Therefore only 2 seamers out of the 3 of Southee, Jamieson, Wagner.
The last place to balance that out should be either Daryl Mitchell or Rachin Ravindra - it's the batting this place should be primarily selected on. Therefore definitely not Santner.
But from the cattle they've given us, It's either Ravindra or Phillips. But they'll probably go Santner and play the 3rd seamer, not Sommerville, and we will score no runs and Patel can be seen off with not enough pressure at other end - and we will lose badly.
TBH. The zero cricket that Patel, Sommerville, Taylor have gotten due to lockdowns means we will be even more under-prepped than usual. So, bit moot.
This is absolutely crazy talk. The absence of Boult means these three have to step up, not fight for two places !!!!
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@mn5 said in Other Cricket:
@rapido said in Other Cricket:
They've slightly stuffed up the squad again IMO, but only slightly.
Just the wrong Mitchell. Should be Darryl Mitchell and no Mitchell Santner.
I'm not entirely sure of my desired first 11. But I know it definitely includes the two specialist spinners Patel and Sommerville. Therefore only 2 seamers out of the 3 of Southee, Jamieson, Wagner.
The last place to balance that out should be either Daryl Mitchell or Rachin Ravindra - it's the batting this place should be primarily selected on. Therefore definitely not Santner.
But from the cattle they've given us, It's either Ravindra or Phillips. But they'll probably go Santner and play the 3rd seamer, not Sommerville, and we will score no runs and Patel can be seen off with not enough pressure at other end - and we will lose badly.
TBH. The zero cricket that Patel, Sommerville, Taylor have gotten due to lockdowns means we will be even more under-prepped than usual. So, bit moot.
This is absolutely crazy talk. The absence of Boult means these three have to step up, not fight for two places !!!!
Nope.
Writing on the wall that 4 of them were fighting for 2 places. So why bother going through all the MIQ and other malarkey for a guy with young family. All 3 will get a test on the short tour, but hopefully not in same match.
NZ have good results in UAE and Sri Lanka the last 2 years when they pick a proper team for the conditions. 2 seamer, 2 spinners and an allrounder (which was CdG).
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@rapido said in Other Cricket:
@mn5 said in Other Cricket:
@rapido said in Other Cricket:
They've slightly stuffed up the squad again IMO, but only slightly.
Just the wrong Mitchell. Should be Darryl Mitchell and no Mitchell Santner.
I'm not entirely sure of my desired first 11. But I know it definitely includes the two specialist spinners Patel and Sommerville. Therefore only 2 seamers out of the 3 of Southee, Jamieson, Wagner.
The last place to balance that out should be either Daryl Mitchell or Rachin Ravindra - it's the batting this place should be primarily selected on. Therefore definitely not Santner.
But from the cattle they've given us, It's either Ravindra or Phillips. But they'll probably go Santner and play the 3rd seamer, not Sommerville, and we will score no runs and Patel can be seen off with not enough pressure at other end - and we will lose badly.
TBH. The zero cricket that Patel, Sommerville, Taylor have gotten due to lockdowns means we will be even more under-prepped than usual. So, bit moot.
This is absolutely crazy talk. The absence of Boult means these three have to step up, not fight for two places !!!!
Nope.
Writing on the wall that 4 of them were fighting for 2 places. So why bother going through all the MIQ and other malarkey for a guy with young family. All 3 will get a test on the short tour, but hopefully not in same match.
NZ have good results in UAE and Sri Lanka the last 2 years when they pick a proper team for the conditions. 2 seamer, 2 spinners and an allrounder (which was CdG).
I do kind of see your reasoning but our pace trio has an amazing ( for NZ ) mix of talent and experience. I can’t see ANY of them being dropped but then again I see the need for spin so it has the potential to be a headache.
If they promoted Jamieson to seven then there’s room for both spinners making it, flipside of that of course is a potentially very long tail.
I don’t want Santner ( average of 45 and never more than three wickets in an innings ) anywhere near the team.
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NZ have only won 15 teats in Asia in 67 years of touring.
20% (or 3) of all or Asian wins have come in last 2 years with Patel/Sommerville/2 Seamers/CdG.
With this knowledge, the exclusion of Darryl Mitchell is almost bloody criminal. Yeah, I know his bowling isn't in CdG's league, but at least his recent batting is way better.
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@rapido said in Other Cricket:
**NZ have only won 15 teats in Asia in 52 years of touring.
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20% (or 3) of all or Asian wins have come in last 2 years with Patel/Sommerville/2 Seamers/CdG.With this knowledge, the exclusion of Darryl Mitchell is almost bloody criminal. Yeah, I know his bowling isn't in CdG's league, but at least his recent batting is way better.
That’s a pretty wide span and as long suffering fans like us know we’ve had some absolutely shithouse teams…..then again India have also been weak during certain periods…….
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We've had 5 teats in Asia in those last 2 years. 3 wins as mentioned above, the 2 we lost is when we ventured away from that balance. Erratic Sodhi instead of Sommerville in one, Santner instead of CdG in another.
I might just be getting superstitious now, rather than basing an ironed-on strategy on such small sample sizes.
My hunch that they will play Santner. His bowling will be fine in those likely conditions for the 5th bowler. But I don't rate his test batting as good enough to balance that team. However in the 2 tours I mention. CdG batting was terrible in UAE where he was all at see v Yasir Shah (and v Hasan Ali in the white ball games) - but his contribution with the bat in SL was vital.
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@rapido said in Other Cricket:
We've had 5 teats in Asia in those last 2 years. 3 wins as mentioned above, the 2 we lost is when we ventured away from that balance. Erratic Sodhi instead of Sommerville in one, Santner instead of CdG in another.
I might just be getting superstitious now, rather than basing an ironed-on strategy on such small sample sizes.
My hunch that they will play Santner. His bowling will be fine in those likely conditions for the 5th bowler. But I don't rate his test batting as good enough to balance that team. However in the 2 tours I mention. CdG batting was terrible in UAE where he was all at see v Yasir Shah (and v Hasan Ali in the white ball games) - but his contribution with the bat in SL was vital.
Yeah despite our grumblings I can easily see Santner getting picked and bowling adequately enough to then get picked in our summer tests.
CDGH not being there is a big bonus for him.
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Venturing off topic a bit.
But a little tribute for CdG's bowling.
We've never had a 5th bowler like him in my almost 40 years of watching. He was effective in almost all conditions (Asia, NZ, Aus etc). Kept it tight as well as getting wickets. New ball swing wickets, older ball wobble seam wickets.
Man, we're going to miss that ... yet, no qualms with him opting out of this tour and wondering if he would have been dropped anyway based on his current batting form.
But, what a useful player ha has been for us.
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@crazy-horse said in Other Cricket:
With none of the batters able to roll their arms over to provide back up seam, I would be surprised if they went with two seamers and three spinners.
Stead has pretty much indicated that Patel and Somerville will be in the XI along with 2 pace bowlers. Like @Donsteppa I'd strengthen the batting for the last position and use Ravindra as the 5th bowling option.
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@rapido said in Other Cricket:
Venturing off topic a bit.
But a little tribute for CdG's bowling.
We've never had a 5th bowler like him in my almost 40 years of watching. He was effective in almost all conditions (Asia, NZ, Aus etc). Kept it tight as well as getting wickets. New ball swing wickets, older ball wobble seam wickets.
Man, we're going to miss that ... yet, no qualms with him opting out of this tour and wondering if he would have been dropped anyway based on his current batting form.
But, what a useful player ha has been for us.
He became the kind of test player I hoped Corey Anderson or Jimmy Neesham would become, I looked at either one of those two as our answer to Ben Stokes to be honest.
CDGH rode his luck and had a very decent career all things considered.
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@mn5 said in NZ tour of India:
@rapido said in Other Cricket:
Venturing off topic a bit.
But a little tribute for CdG's bowling.
We've never had a 5th bowler like him in my almost 40 years of watching. He was effective in almost all conditions (Asia, NZ, Aus etc). Kept it tight as well as getting wickets. New ball swing wickets, older ball wobble seam wickets.
Man, we're going to miss that ... yet, no qualms with him opting out of this tour and wondering if he would have been dropped anyway based on his current batting form.
But, what a useful player ha has been for us.
He became the kind of test player I hoped Corey Anderson or Jimmy Neesham would become, I looked at either one of those two as our answer to Ben Stokes to be honest.
CDGH rode his luck and had a very decent career all things considered.
His timing is right. The team is passing him by now. Doesn't detract from the contribution made over the last few years
