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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TeWaio" data-cid="581960" data-time="1464003886">
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<p>Shouldn't NZ society celebrate those who have made a lot of money themselves on the international stage? And even more so if the field (finance) has a lot of skills transferable to running the country?</p>
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<p>Thats not how it works in NZ at all. There are parallels to how the average kiwi views the wealthy to Clarkson's column on Britain here.</p>
<p> </p>
<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://recombu.com/cars/article/jeremy-clarkson-says-british-people-are-mealy-mouthed-bitter-and-racked-with-hate#'>https://recombu.com/cars/article/jeremy-clarkson-says-british-people-are-mealy-mouthed-bitter-and-racked-with-hate#</a></div> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="582113" data-time="1464053027"><p>
What does 'statesman like' even mean really? I just find criticism like that rather meaningless, almost as if people cannot really find anything specific so resort to vague generalisations.</p></blockquote>
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It's interesting that he's pretty close to Obama and the Aussie pm said he sees him as a role model. <br><br>
Dogmeat , when you get a chance post that update about Max will you? -
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<p>Alternatively they could recognise</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="582119" data-time="1464053717">
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<p> </p>
<p>Thats not how it works in NZ at all. There are parallels to how the average kiwi views the wealthy to Clarkson's column on Britain here.</p>
<p> </p>
<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://recombu.com/cars/article/jeremy-clarkson-says-british-people-are-mealy-mouthed-bitter-and-racked-with-hate#'>https://recombu.com/cars/article/jeremy-clarkson-says-british-people-are-mealy-mouthed-bitter-and-racked-with-hate#</a></div>
<p> </p>
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<p>Alternatively they could have recognised it was Clarkson and aren't letting him in, not because of the Ferrari, but because he is a smug, narcissistic, bullying, arrogant fuck-knuckle</p> -
<p>Upon further reflection on what a 'statesman ' is supposed to be like.. all I can up with is from examples of those described as statesman in the past.. they have usually been good at bringing sides together from various view points to find a common ground. Key def has not managed that. But with the feral opposition he is dealing with.. nobody could. The left in NZ are to busy opposing absolutely everything he does because HE is doing it for much statesman like conduct to be occurring. Look at the flag debate.</p>
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<p>Holden Statesman</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjm3YSD0vHMAhVInZQKHaePBK0QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbestcarmag.com%2Fmakes%2FHolden%2FStatesman&psig=AFQjCNGsqgrTpbBNmKqQezfHZxEltRce2A&ust=1464142500262407'><img height="333" src="http://bestcarmag.com/sites/default/files/95357464537261711_6557151cfc.jpg" width="500" alt="95357464537261711_6557151cfc.jpg"></a></p> -
<p>I think Crucial's not-a-statesman argument is invalid, given that "being a goofy dork actually seemed to endear him to voters".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I can't be a 100% certain, but I imagine goofy-dorkism and statesman-like are mutually exclusive qualities.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I do find Key's popularism has worked against National doing anything progressive, despite being given possibly the best chance to do something different since the 1930's (electorate prepared to take their medicine post GFC coupled with a totally limp opposition).</p>
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<p>He really does seem hell-bent on not only surpassing Holyoake's length of tenure but also his blandness.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="582141" data-time="1464056123">
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<p>I think Crucial's not-a-statesman argument is invalid, given that "being a goofy dork actually seemed to endear him to voters".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I can't be a 100% certain, but I imagine goofy-dorkism and statesman-like are mutually exclusive qualities.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I do find Key's popularism has worked against National doing anything progressive, despite being given possibly the best chance to do something different since the 1930's (electorate prepared to take their medicine post GFC coupled with a totally limp opposition).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He really does seem hell-bent on not only surpassing Holyoake's length of tenure but also his blandness.</p>
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<p>He has done a lot! Mostly moving left and stealing any possible policies that labour might come up with.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="582149" data-time="1464056622">
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<p>He has done a lot! Mostly moving left and stealing any possible policies that labour might come up with.</p>
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<p>When the histories of Key's premiership are written in the future, I don't think they will focus on his policy initiatives.</p>
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<p>More his popularism, popularity, making the role more presidential and the various imbroglio's.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="582140" data-time="1464056121"><p>
Holden Statesman<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjm3YSD0vHMAhVInZQKHaePBK0QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbestcarmag.com%2Fmakes%2FHolden%2FStatesman&psig=AFQjCNGsqgrTpbBNmKqQezfHZxEltRce2A&ust=1464142500262407"><img src="http://bestcarmag.com/sites/default/files/95357464537261711_6557151cfc.jpg" alt="95357464537261711_6557151cfc.jpg"></a></p></blockquote>
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My dad had one of those, it was a South African export model so it had Chevrolet instead of Holden badges . It had a 350 from the factory too, not a great car to own when the fuel crisis hit. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="582141" data-time="1464056123"><p>
I think Crucial's not-a-statesman argument is invalid, given that "being a goofy dork actually seemed to endear him to voters".<br><br>
I can't be a 100% certain, but I imagine goofy-dorkism and statesman-like are mutually exclusive qualities.<br><br>
I do find Key's popularism has worked against National doing anything progressive, despite being given possibly the best chance to do something different since the 1930's (electorate prepared to take their medicine post GFC coupled with a totally limp opposition).<br><br>
He really does seem hell-bent on not only surpassing Holyoake's length of tenure but also his blandness.</p></blockquote>
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What do you mean by something different ?<br><br>
As for bland , I'll take bland over utter prick- Muldoon ,or quick witted flake- Lange any day of the week and twice in Sunday's . <br><br>
I'll be interested in your take of him in the flesh, I was no fan of Clark but I saw her speak at a function when she turned up unannounced and she was pretty impressive. -
<p>In the flesh, he's quite similar to how he comes across on TV actually.</p>
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<p>He likes to talk "off the cuff" and leavens everything with anecdotes.</p>
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<p>Doesn't strike me as having the intellect that Clark projected but no dummy.</p>
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<p>Quite hands off, but likes to see some tangibles happen. So leave the big picture stuff to others but might focus on one point and want to see that happen.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Comes across as a competent middle manager. Don't get the hero worship but it is very tangible (especially amongst the "ladies of a certain age")</p>
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<p>He is very good at giving people the impression he's fascinated by them - for the 30 seconds he engages with them.</p>
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<p>In terms of something different - tax reform!</p> -
They did change part of our tax system , I'm not fishing for an argument but what specifically would you want to see changed? Our system came out pretty highly ranked against other countries .<br>
Stoked to see the changes to the way self employed people pay tax , too late for me but it makes that second year an absolute bitch for a lot of people .<br><br>
Hard to rank the pms I guess but in my lifetime I'd put him above Muldoon Lange and Bolger , I'd leave out the one or two year non entities like Palmer etc. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="582137" data-time="1464055537">
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<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Alternatively they could have recognised it was Clarkson and aren't letting him in, not because of the Ferrari, but because he is a smug, narcissistic, bullying, arrogant fuck-knuckle</p>
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<p>The point still stands. See the comment on the Gayle thread about the red sports car.</p>
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<p>Alot of New Zealanders prefer to look down on people with wealth - unless of course if they made through cows, or horticulture or whatever "job of the people" was done. A dairy farmer driving a brand new HSV doesn't get anywhere near the scorn a city worker driving an 8 year old BMW does.</p>
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<p>Which is, if you ask me, is why Key has so many detractors. These are the same people, with the same reasons, who wouldn't let the Ferrari in.</p> -
<p>dunno, there are still plenty who throw scorn on farmers when the price of milk/wool/beef drops and throw thier hands up in mock distress saying the poor farmers, <em>because</em> they drive around in the new HSV while claiming hardship because of the drop in thier payouts</p>
<p> </p>
<p>People just like the chance to chop someone down that appears to be doing better than them, regardless.</p> -
<p>I think the longer you stay in power the more people pick holes in you. It happened to Helen, the media are not as enamoured with Key as they were in his first term and are willing to cast him in a poorer light than before. He is doing increasing amounts of silly shit too IMHO</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="582222" data-time="1464077402">
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<p>I think the longer you stay in power the more people pick holes in you. It happened to Helen, the media are not as enamoured with Key as they were in his first term and are willing to cast him in a poorer light than before. He is doing increasing amounts of silly shit too IMHO</p>
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<p>He's been in power so long, it's time to start taking the piss and fucking around.</p>
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<p>I'm 7 years into my job, and I reckon my fern stats are exponentially on the up.</p>
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<p>It's human nature, to gradually move from motivated and dedicated to taking the piss over any tenure in any job. Oh sure, you get a couple of rockets or a cheeky bonus every now and again which gives you the kick up the arse you needed, but lets face it, the longer you are in a job, the more likely you are to be piss farting around at any given moment.</p> -
<p>Key is a competent, able prime minister. I dislike some of his goofing around, but that also endears him to the public and is a large part of what makes him popular. I don't hate him, in part because he seems a decent guy, and in part because he's not that bad.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>However, I don't think National's economic policies work in the long term, nor do I agree with many of the changes they have made to employment legislation in the name of "flexibility". My beliefs are firmly in favour of more interventionist macroeconomic policies, and substantially better conditions for workers, and neither of those are ever likely to be National policies.</p>
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