Electric Vehicles
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
F150 Lightning, Hyundai Ioniq, the Nissan Leaf and I think the KIA all do home charging.
Right, the basic technology is there. I would have thought like everything else, Tesla would be leading this.
Although I guess that would sell less power walls.
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
F150 Lightning, Hyundai Ioniq, the Nissan Leaf and I think the KIA all do home charging.
Right, the basic technology is there. I would have thought like everything else, Tesla would be leading this.
Although I guess that would sell less power walls.
Cynical, but a good point!
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
That’s because it IS bleedingly obvious. Can’t speak for other countries but the issues here are:
- not enough EVs
- not enough smart meters
- electricity retailers doing their best to nullify the benefit of resi solar and batteries / EVs by extension
As always, lots of vested interests and political point scoring getting in the way of doing anything productive.
Micro-grids in a community make so much sense to me.
It's obvious? It's not obvious to me why this colossal energy storage thing in your car can't be used to power your house during peak load / expensive times then charged during reduced load times.
Yes, this can only work for those with electric cars & houses, but thats gotta be a sizeable portion.
Understood on the vested interests. I just find it annoying that here in the UK, there is wind generation capacity for up to around 75% of requirements ... but as soon as the wind stops blowing (literally) it drops to zero. Yes, I understand your point about micro grids, but that isn't a quick / cheap fix. Where as taking advantage of these huge power reserves parked on your driveway feels like it is.
I mean it's obvious (to me, to you, and to anyone else that works even close to the fringes of electricity, renewables, the automobile industry etc) that a decent-sized battery sitting in your carport should be part of your household energy mix!
It gets talked about plenty here by advocates for renewables and EV's - but there remain so many blockages still. Really frustrating
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
"It's expected V2G will be standard on all new EVs by 2025."
Bidirectional chargers for EVs are finally approved in Australia, and they'll be a game changer
A new kind of charger that allows an electric vehicle to be used as a giant home battery is close to going on sale in Australia. So how does it work and is it worth the price?
I understand someone got this working in South Australia but had to go through a considerable amount of red tape so this being connected en masse (well, EV en masse) by 2025 sounds optimistic to me.
ah, here it is, there was a trial mentioned in December
Electric cars to power South Australian homes in new trial
South Australia has become the first jurisdiction to allow private electric-car owners to send their battery’s energy back into their homes.
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@nostrildamus said in Electric Vehicles:
@JC said in Electric Vehicles:
@nostrildamus ... and yet, they can't make a car that I'd actually want to drive. Sales in America are of course important for their profitability but the US has honestly given us very little in the way of decent cars. Sometimes iconic, sure, but not often objectively good.
Toyota you mean? Yep, not known for the driving experience.
No, Tesla.
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Just read a review of the latest Kia EV
$100k + on-roads
But the numbers...
430kw. 0-100 in 3.5 seconds. 450-odd range
Out performs the similar porsche for 160k less -
@mariner4life said in Electric Vehicles:
Just read a review of the latest Kia EV
$100k + on-roads
But the numbers...
430kw. 0-100 in 3.5 seconds. 450-odd range
Out performs the similar porsche for 160k lessI just bought a Kia. Brand spanking new.
It was a bottom of the range Cerato, and it cost $28k
I love it.
And yet I really cannot imagine anyone spending $110k + for a Kia. The range might be solid but it’s not spectacular compared to competitors. And does acceleration in an EV really matter? How often do you get to accelerate to 100km in 4 seconds?
And does it matter if it’s 3 seconds or 4?
I remain firmly of the view that these mainstream companies should be 100% focussed on getting costs down and building a $30k model that performs like my shithouse Cerato.
Decent looking vehicle
Good mileage
Affordable
0-100 in about a minute -
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@mariner4life said in Electric Vehicles:
Just read a review of the latest Kia EV
$100k + on-roads
But the numbers...
430kw. 0-100 in 3.5 seconds. 450-odd range
Out performs the similar porsche for 160k lessI just bought a Kia. Brand spanking new.
It was a bottom of the range Cerato, and it cost $28k
I love it.
And yet I really cannot imagine anyone spending $110k + for a Kia. The range might be solid but it’s not spectacular compared to competitors. And does acceleration in an EV really matter? How often do you get to accelerate to 100km in 4 seconds?
And does it matter if it’s 3 seconds or 4?
I remain firmly of the view that these mainstream companies should be 100% focussed on getting costs down and building a $30k model that performs like my shithouse Cerato.
Decent looking vehicle
Good mileage
Affordable
0-100 in about a minuteYou raise a good point. Ultimately cars are your thing, or they aren’t.
I’ve driven the Kia and the Taycan. Is it worth 2.6x? Arguable. However …
Once you take depreciation in the equation, I’ll argue the Taycan will be about 50% more to own for 3 years …. And it will be totally worth it.
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@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
And yet I really cannot imagine anyone spending $110k + for a Kia. The range might be solid but it’s not spectacular compared to competitors. And does acceleration in an EV really matter? How often do you get to accelerate to 100km in 4 seconds?
Every traffic light.
And does it matter if it’s 3 seconds or 4?
Does to the loser.
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
And yet I really cannot imagine anyone spending $110k + for a Kia. The range might be solid but it’s not spectacular compared to competitors. And does acceleration in an EV really matter? How often do you get to accelerate to 100km in 4 seconds?
Every traffic light.
And does it matter if it’s 3 seconds or 4?
Does to the loser.
safe to say I ain’t winning many drag races in my Cerato 😂
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
And yet I really cannot imagine anyone spending $110k + for a Kia. The range might be solid but it’s not spectacular compared to competitors. And does acceleration in an EV really matter? How often do you get to accelerate to 100km in 4 seconds?
Every traffic light.
And does it matter if it’s 3 seconds or 4?
Does to the loser.
The howl of my exhaust compensates somewhat.
Question still stands tho …. Who will pay 110k for a Kia?
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
And yet I really cannot imagine anyone spending $110k + for a Kia. The range might be solid but it’s not spectacular compared to competitors. And does acceleration in an EV really matter? How often do you get to accelerate to 100km in 4 seconds?
Every traffic light.
And does it matter if it’s 3 seconds or 4?
Does to the loser.
The howl of my exhaust compensates somewhat.
Question still stands tho …. Who will pay 110k for a Kia?
I think there is a niche market for it. It took a while for people to stomach the idea Japanese cars were worth serious coin. Korean cars are entering that phase. I saw an interview with Ford's CEO who said of all the manufacturers, he sees KIA as the most interesting and competitive with what they're building now.
They managed to sell the Stinger and EVs come with a known price premium. They'll move, especially for people who want premium EV experience and can't get their hands on other options. I mean Teslas were selling for more. Teslas ffs. Cars with worse panel gaps than a Friday built Trabant, and engineering effort devoted to fart noises...
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
That’s because it IS bleedingly obvious. Can’t speak for other countries but the issues here are:
- not enough EVs
- not enough smart meters
- electricity retailers doing their best to nullify the benefit of resi solar and batteries / EVs by extension
As always, lots of vested interests and political point scoring getting in the way of doing anything productive.
Micro-grids in a community make so much sense to me.
It's obvious? It's not obvious to me why this colossal energy storage thing in your car can't be used to power your house during peak load / expensive times then charged during reduced load times.
Yes, this can only work for those with electric cars & houses, but thats gotta be a sizeable portion.
Understood on the vested interests. I just find it annoying that here in the UK, there is wind generation capacity for up to around 75% of requirements ... but as soon as the wind stops blowing (literally) it drops to zero. Yes, I understand your point about micro grids, but that isn't a quick / cheap fix. Where as taking advantage of these huge power reserves parked on your driveway feels like it is.
Umm, because most people setting up any sort of self energy system for their dwelling would already have storage capacity and at some point you need that vehicle battery so you can use the vehicle.
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@Crucial said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
That’s because it IS bleedingly obvious. Can’t speak for other countries but the issues here are:
- not enough EVs
- not enough smart meters
- electricity retailers doing their best to nullify the benefit of resi solar and batteries / EVs by extension
As always, lots of vested interests and political point scoring getting in the way of doing anything productive.
Micro-grids in a community make so much sense to me.
It's obvious? It's not obvious to me why this colossal energy storage thing in your car can't be used to power your house during peak load / expensive times then charged during reduced load times.
Yes, this can only work for those with electric cars & houses, but thats gotta be a sizeable portion.
Understood on the vested interests. I just find it annoying that here in the UK, there is wind generation capacity for up to around 75% of requirements ... but as soon as the wind stops blowing (literally) it drops to zero. Yes, I understand your point about micro grids, but that isn't a quick / cheap fix. Where as taking advantage of these huge power reserves parked on your driveway feels like it is.
Umm, because most people setting up any sort of self energy system for their dwelling would already have storage capacity and at some point you need that vehicle battery so you can use the vehicle.
You being deliberately obtuse?
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@antipodean Kia make great cars. They look superb, are well made and are very well marketed.
Dynamically, they are not at the German level, but that matters little when they are 20-30pct cheaper.
I just think, UK wise, options at 70k are vast. I’m sure there will be a few lease / fleet deals going tho which will see many hit the road.
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
. I’m sure there will be a few lease / fleet deals going tho which will see many hit the road.
Fleet is big for organisations (particularly government) trying to lower their operating cost and carbon footprint. Also becomes a massive lever for establishing a second-hand EV market.
I was looking at novated lease options and EV doesn't work as well as ICEV because maintenance cost is low.
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@Crucial said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
That’s because it IS bleedingly obvious. Can’t speak for other countries but the issues here are:
- not enough EVs
- not enough smart meters
- electricity retailers doing their best to nullify the benefit of resi solar and batteries / EVs by extension
As always, lots of vested interests and political point scoring getting in the way of doing anything productive.
Micro-grids in a community make so much sense to me.
It's obvious? It's not obvious to me why this colossal energy storage thing in your car can't be used to power your house during peak load / expensive times then charged during reduced load times.
Yes, this can only work for those with electric cars & houses, but thats gotta be a sizeable portion.
Understood on the vested interests. I just find it annoying that here in the UK, there is wind generation capacity for up to around 75% of requirements ... but as soon as the wind stops blowing (literally) it drops to zero. Yes, I understand your point about micro grids, but that isn't a quick / cheap fix. Where as taking advantage of these huge power reserves parked on your driveway feels like it is.
Umm, because most people setting up any sort of self energy system for their dwelling would already have storage capacity and at some point you need that vehicle battery so you can use the vehicle.
You being deliberately obtuse?
No. Point is made in one of those articles. Bi-directional chargers sound great but when then cost in similar to a home battery then spending a little more and setting up some renewable energy into a home battery makes sense as you will be creating the energy that you store
IF the bidirectional charger was considerably cheaper then the value may be greater.
The other point is the practical use. For days that you don't intend to use the vehicle (or only use a small part of its storage for driving) then using it to power the dishwasher/washing machine in the morning after overnight charging at cheaper rates makes sense but surely it is easier to set appliances to run off a smart network at those cheaper times anyway and cut out the middle man?
If the car isn't at home (eg you have driven it to work) then it isn't even there at peak times.
Then then is the very real possibility that peak/off peak power becomes either a thing of the past or a constantly fluctuating thing with makes it very hard to plan around when drawing from the car is beneficial.
