6N Ireland v England
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Just an observation on the Steward discussion. If a lot of knowledgeable people have been watching replays & discussing this intelligently for the last 3 days and still can't come to an agreement on a RC, how do we expect the Ref to come to the right decision after 2-3 replays in a couple of minutes?
I think we all agree the whole Red Card issue is a mess and there's no simple answer, but what's off-pissing is the lack of even trying to sort it out at Test Level (like they have at SR level) which is frustrating and making Test Rugby a much poorer experience for players and fans alike.
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@MajorRage said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Why is there continued focus on the 'forward pass' when none was ever indicated or awarded?
Because thats what played out right in front of Steward and what I believe he took his actions on.
Lack of indication or award, given the time frame, is not relevant.
So Steward assessed the situation incorrectly?
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Upvote purely for the introduction of "off-pissing".
But aside from that, you have a point.
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@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MajorRage said in 6N Ireland v England:
@MiketheSnow said in 6N Ireland v England:
Why is there continued focus on the 'forward pass' when none was ever indicated or awarded?
Because thats what played out right in front of Steward and what I believe he took his actions on.
Lack of indication or award, given the time frame, is not relevant.
So Steward assessed the situation incorrectly?
It is, and became, completely irrelevant.
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@Victor-Meldrew not sure anybody is arguing that Peyper got it completely wrong, are they?
He reffd to the rules, for sure.
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@MajorRage said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Victor-Meldrew not sure anybody is arguing that Peyper got it completely wrong, are they?
He reffd to the rules, for sure.
My point is that while the rules are clear-cut to help the Refs come to a decision quickly, those rules can be tweaked to allow better decisions to be made by taking away the time pressure.
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I think if Keenan doesn’t gather the ball then it’s called as a rugby incident, possibly a penalty to Ireland but probably not. Once Keenan does gather the ball the whole scenario changes because the obligation is now on Steward to make a legal tackle or avoid contact, and he does neither.
Awards for concussion injuries are a massive financial threat to World Rugby and individual Unions so I wouldn’t be holding my breath waiting for a change of interpretation anytime soon.
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The correct call.
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@pakman said in 6N Ireland v England:
Panel has rescinded Steward's Red card.
Which makes a mockery of the guidelines.
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@pakman said in 6N Ireland v England:
Panel has rescinded Steward's Red card.
Found Yellow was sufficient. Keenan was bent at waist, which for me ought to have counted for something.
10-9 at 61 suggests we were denied a humdinger of an ending.
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@antipodean said in 6N Ireland v England:
@pakman said in 6N Ireland v England:
Panel has rescinded Steward's Red card.
Which makes a mockery of the guidelines.
Haven't seen decision, but press cites existence of mitigating factors.
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Freddie Steward cleared after red card for England in Ireland overturned
England’s Freddie Steward has had the red card he received in the Six Nations clash with Ireland at the weekend rescinded
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@pakman said in 6N Ireland v England:
Freddie Steward cleared after red card for England in Ireland overturned
England’s Freddie Steward has had the red card he received in the Six Nations clash with Ireland at the weekend rescinded
Well well well. What have we here.
Grand slam is already in the cupboard though isn’t it. These things matter and they need to start getting them right at the time of the incident.
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SHAUN EDWARDS: Freddie Steward's red card was an injustice
Freddie Steward's red card on Saturday - which was rescinded on Wednesday - was an injustice. It was an injustice to himself and also to the England fans who had paid good money for their tickets.
Defence coach extraordinaire Shaun Edwards believes it wasn’t even a penalty.
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@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
@pakman said in 6N Ireland v England:
Freddie Steward cleared after red card for England in Ireland overturned
England’s Freddie Steward has had the red card he received in the Six Nations clash with Ireland at the weekend rescinded
Well well well. What have we here.
Grand slam is already in the cupboard though isn’t it. These things matter and they need to start getting them right at the time of the incident.
Whilst you’re right about the GS, we’re were hanging on by the skin of our teeth and coming up in second place in virtually every aspect of the game. Irish nerves early on kept us in the game.
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@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
SHAUN EDWARDS: Freddie Steward's red card was an injustice
Freddie Steward's red card on Saturday - which was rescinded on Wednesday - was an injustice. It was an injustice to himself and also to the England fans who had paid good money for their tickets.
Defence coach extraordinaire Shaun Edwards believes it wasn’t even a penalty.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this particular incident, he’s hit it right on the nail about refs taking more responsibility. We’re increasingly seeing the TMO effectively reffing the game and pushing the ref down a particular path.
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@Catogrande said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
SHAUN EDWARDS: Freddie Steward's red card was an injustice
Freddie Steward's red card on Saturday - which was rescinded on Wednesday - was an injustice. It was an injustice to himself and also to the England fans who had paid good money for their tickets.
Defence coach extraordinaire Shaun Edwards believes it wasn’t even a penalty.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this particular incident, he’s hit it right on the nail about refs taking more responsibility. We’re increasingly seeing the TMO effectively reffing the game and pushing the ref down a particular path.
The conversations amongst the ref's AR's and TMO are a disgrace. The pregnant pauses, the "let me show you another angle" instead of saying " no Jaco X or Y happened". Arse covering and self preservation society members the lot of em..
I very rarely see an honest climbdown or change of mind between ref and TMO.
The system is shite.
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@Catogrande said in 6N Ireland v England:
We’re increasingly seeing the TMO effectively reffing the game and pushing the ref down a particular path.
I'd happily take the decision on Red Cards away from the Ref and let the TMO decide while a yellow is running. Would stop the farce we've seen with Steward, speed up the game and reduce bad decisions.
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@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Catogrande said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Steve said in 6N Ireland v England:
SHAUN EDWARDS: Freddie Steward's red card was an injustice
Freddie Steward's red card on Saturday - which was rescinded on Wednesday - was an injustice. It was an injustice to himself and also to the England fans who had paid good money for their tickets.
Defence coach extraordinaire Shaun Edwards believes it wasn’t even a penalty.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this particular incident, he’s hit it right on the nail about refs taking more responsibility. We’re increasingly seeing the TMO effectively reffing the game and pushing the ref down a particular path.
The conversations amongst the ref's AR's and TMO are a disgrace. The pregnant pauses, the "let me show you another angle" instead of saying " no Jaco X or Y happened". Arse covering and self preservation society members the lot of em..
I very rarely see an honest climbdown or change of mind between ref and TMO.
The system is shite.
That's because they are very aware their conversation is being broadcast. I have said it before, the conversation between the TMO, refs and assistants needs to be private.
