Bastille day truck crash
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Indeed. Terrorism is merely a minor irritant and we should just get used to it. It's also a great excuse to change Facebook profile!
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="598008" data-time="1468890012"><p>
Indeed. Terrorism is merely a minor irritant and we should just get used to it. It's also a great excuse to change Facebook profile!</p></blockquote>
This reminds me of my brother in law who works for an animal conservation charity. He's fixated with sharks and often spouts the bullshit statistics about how many attacks there are a year and his charity tried get YouTube to change shark attack to shark incident on their videos.<br>
I showed him the Eric Ritter video which starts off with the " sharks don't want to hurt people" bullshit but ends very very badly.<br><br>
Edited after searching his name , <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/bahamas/1391717/Yoga-theory-fails-to-save-scientist-from-shark-bite.html">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/bahamas/1391717/Yoga-theory-fails-to-save-scientist-from-shark-bite.html</a> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="598008" data-time="1468890012">
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<p>Indeed. Terrorism is merely a minor irritant and we should just get used to it. It's also a great excuse to change Facebook profile!</p>
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<p>deliberately obtuse. obviously it is different in that it is deliberate. obviously it should be addressed. obviously it is terrible.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>none of which has any bearing on my point that avoiding europe because of the likelihood of an event is not a logical decision and is not borne out by the statistics.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="598033" data-time="1468896832">
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<p>deliberately obtuse. obviously it is different in that it is deliberate. obviously it should be addressed. obviously it is terrible.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>none of which has any bearing on my point that avoiding europe because of the likelihood of an event is not a logical decision and is not borne out by the statistics.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>I don't agree that it's entirely illogical. In just the past few months we've seen bombs at airports in Brussels and Istanbul, massacres in Paris and Nice and now an axe attack in Germany. France currently has 10,000 soldiers and as many police patrolling the streets. What really scares the shit out of me is the thought of what things would be like if it wasn't for the billions and countless hours spent on counterterrorism and deradicalisation. While it might be the suitably progressive thing to tut tut that other religions are just as bad, the evidence in Europe in 2016 (not 1272) would tend to indicate otherwise.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="598039" data-time="1468898101">
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<p>I don't agree that it's entirely illogical. In just the past few months we've seen bombs at airports in Brussels and Istanbul, massacres in Paris and Nice and now an axe attack in Germany. France currently has 10,000 soldiers and as many police patrolling the streets. What really scares the shit out of me is the thought of what things would be like if it wasn't for the billions and countless hours spent on counterterrorism and deradicalisation. While it might be the suitably progressive thing to tut tut that other religions are just as bad, the evidence in Europe in 2016 (not 1272) would tend to indicate otherwise.</p>
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<p>looking purely at the numbers, it is illogical. you can live in fear, which is what these fluffybunnies want, or not. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>i am not saying any religion is good or bad, or better or worse, or equivalent - i simply don't care about any of them. what i am doing is using examples of christians doing awful shit (recently, in africa) to illustrate that the evidence indicates that poverty, lack of education etc are the root factors.</p>
<p>blaming islam in the way many do means alienating peaceful muslims - turning 'us' into whitey, and 'them' into muslims - but really 'us' ought to be all peaceful people and 'them' ought to be terrorists. i think that it is not only incorrect assignation of blame, it's also counter-productive in that it is likely to lead to more radicalisation - as well as just being a shit thing to do to innocent people, not to mention contributing to the election of the likes of the wonderful pauline hanson.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>note that i do not think any criticism of the koran or mohammed or allah, or in fact anything at all should be off limits. free speech is important. obviously the koran is ridiculous, obviously taking it literally is fucked. but the problem is not an old book, the problem is people being fucked enough to believe in an old book.</p> -
<p>I went to Egypt 2 weeks after Sept. 11.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The tour company we used had loads of Americans cancel thier trips, we had people telling us not to go, including my family back in NZ.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We did, got upgraded to their 'flag ship' Nile Cruiser and had an awesome time...it was an eye opener seeing MIlitary everywhere with guns, had a police escort going to Abu Simbel, but this was due to them only just re-opening the road to tour groups due to 'pirates' as opposed to being a response to the attacks (unlike at Gatwick where there were Brit cops with guns) but made the visit to Hatshepsut Temple even more eerie with the bulletholes in the temple un-repaired from the terror attack there in 1997.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="598073" data-time="1468909391">
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<p>looking purely at the numbers, it is illogical. you can live in fear, which is what these fluffybunnys want, or not. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>i am not saying any religion is good or bad, or better or worse, or equivalent - i simply don't care about any of them. what i am doing is using examples of christians doing awful shit (recently, in africa) to illustrate that the evidence indicates that poverty, lack of education etc are the root factors.</p>
<p>blaming islam in the way many do means alienating peaceful muslims - turning 'us' into whitey, and 'them' into muslims - but really 'us' ought to be all peaceful people and 'them' ought to be terrorists. i think that it is not only incorrect assignation of blame, it's also counter-productive in that it is likely to lead to more radicalisation - as well as just being a shit thing to do to innocent people, not to mention contributing to the election of the likes of the wonderful pauline hanson.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>note that i do not think any criticism of the koran or mohammed or allah, or in fact anything at all should be off limits. free speech is important. obviously the koran is ridiculous, obviously taking it literally is fucked. but the problem is not an old book, the problem is people being fucked enough to believe in an old book.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>I don't think its living in fear so much as keeping a safe distance from a place that might be a terrorist target. Sure the odds of getting killed or maimed are low, but the poor buggers who were blown up or run over had the same odds as well.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If poverty, lack of education etc. are the root factors then how do you explain that many of these guys grow up in comfortable (sometimes well-off) homes in western countries with access to all the benefits a Western country can provide? Neither the guy in Orlando nor the one in Nice seemed to be particularly poor or lacking in opportunities.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="598075" data-time="1468910744">
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<p>I went to Egypt 2 weeks after Sept. 11.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The tour company we used had loads of Americans cancel thier trips, we had people telling us not to go, including my family back in NZ.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We did, got upgraded to their 'flag ship' Nile Cruiser and had an awesome time...it was an eye opener seeing MIlitary everywhere with guns, had a police escort going to Abu Simbel, but this was due to them only just re-opening the road to tour groups due to 'pirates' as opposed to being a response to the attacks (unlike at Gatwick where there were Brit cops with guns) but made the visit to Hatshepsut Temple even more eerie with the bulletholes in the temple un-repaired from the terror attack there in 1997.</p>
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<p>I went to Hurghada shortly after the Arab spring and during the week Bin Laden was killed. I have to say I quite enjoyed going through military checkpoints and seeing the machine guns. Perhaps it made me feel extra safe or something. The week spent there was one of the best holidays I've ever had. It was incredibly beautiful. Was really pissed off to leave.</p> -
<p><img src="https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13716015_1312915342070241_2144108097547345764_n.png?oh=bfc2ad53696ea3b73fb3f6fe5cc2e892&oe=582F96A2" alt="13716015_1312915342070241_21441080975473"></p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="597988" data-time="1468883199">
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<p>Pretty broad.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I know ISIS have claimed Nice, but usually they wait for the public declaration of allegiance to come to light first - did that come through to Police or get sent on FB or something? I haven't been watching closely the last couple of days (trying to save a rugby club).</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>No nothing but no one else claimed it. So they threw their hat in the ring. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="597970" data-time="1468876676">
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<p>Hey I'm not really in this argument but I did want to check the context of the quote by Gary.<br><br>
If you're going to state something as evidence make sure it is. I can't comment on what the Koran/Quran or Haddith or whatever Islam's book says. I'm not necessariky backing BSG or attacking Islam. I suppose I could google some context in the Quran if given specific references. It's really easy to look up "Luke 19:27".<br><br>
Also given my upbringing in an essentislly Christian county (i know many of "you guys" hate that reference but Western European culture is rooted in Christianity) and therefore a vague knowledge of how the Old and New Testaments work I have a starting point to go the google.<br><br>
So don't give the "you guys" line. I was only pointing out bullshit.</p>
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<p>Was not directing this at anyone in particular my point was more trying to understand how a person interprets a book full of fairy tales is a total waste of time. Regardless of the religion or the text chosen. Context is irrelevant when dealing with these people.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway I am peaceing out of these friendly little chats we all have about these topics as it seems as pointless as the facebook profile thing. I had to check that I don't do the facebook. As long as we feed these trolls with media attention they won't go away. So I am becoming part of the solution and not paying them any attention.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Good luck if you find a solution feel free to drop me a PM. Until then I am going to focus on finding that holiday house in the south I have been talking about. </p> -
It's trendy to bag the whole "thoughts and prayers", change your profile pic, raise awareness etc. <br><br>
But given 99.9% of us can do sod all when anything happens, at very worst, thoughts and prayers at least make people feel like they've done something... or at the least feel like they give a damn... Or something. <br><br>
So far as I can tell, the first responders et al didn't stop for thoughts and prayers. I reckon it's a bit like sending a condolence card, what you write never feels sufficient (and probably never is), but it is something at the least. <br><br>
Yeah, there's probably showboating from some in the mix, but those people usually stand out for doing that across all aspects of their lives. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mooshld" data-cid="598123" data-time="1468917961"><p>Was not directing this at anyone in particular my point was more trying to understand how a person interprets a book full of fairy tales is a total waste of time. Regardless of the religion or the text chosen. Context is irrelevant when dealing with these people.<br></p></blockquote>
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Context is always important. Especially when trying to understand a movement who may try to kill. I don't think that means trying to understand people to excuse extreme behaviour, but writing them off as irredeemable is unlikely to help change them... Or stop them. <br><br>
Besides, refs have it hard when interpreting the book of scrum laws. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mooshld" data-cid="598120" data-time="1468917347">
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<p>No nothing but no one else claimed it. So they threw their hat in the ring. </p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Which is a new direction for them - they've moved from organisation, to claiming based on declaration of allegiance (with no organisational links), to just saying "Yeah totes us! What a soldier!"</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The ground war must be going even more shittily than previously thought.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mooshld" data-cid="598120" data-time="1468917347">
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<p>No nothing but no one else claimed it. So they threw their hat in the ring. </p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Bollox. That is just some major fabrication. What point have we got to now in the denial stakes? Some guy kills scores, a terrorist group with a history of inspiring murderous attacks in the west claims responsibility and we get people asking them to prove it? FFS. The world has gone mad.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Would you like ISIS to also provide copies of email correspondence? A signed application form? Does it need to be witnessed by a JP?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="598132" data-time="1468918817">
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<p>Which is a new direction for them - they've moved from organisation, to claiming based on declaration of allegiance (with no organisational links), to just saying "Yeah totes us! What a soldier!"</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The ground war must be going even more shittily than previously thought.</p>
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<p>They have not moved in a new direction at all. That is just the new narrative from some sections, not based on anything but the desire to avoid linking terror attacks in the west to ISIS.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="598129" data-time="1468918574">
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<p>Context is always important. Especially when trying to understand a movement who may try to kill. I don't think that means trying to understand people to excuse extreme behaviour, but writing them off as irredeemable is unlikely to help change them... Or stop them.<br><br>
Besides, refs have it hard when interpreting the book of scrum laws.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I always laugh when I hear someone trying to tell me context is not important. Context is always important. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="598089" data-time="1468912626">
<div><br><p>If poverty, lack of education etc. are the root factors then how do you explain that many of these guys grow up in comfortable (sometimes well-off) homes in western countries with access to all the benefits a Western country can provide? Neither the guy in Orlando nor the one in Nice seemed to be particularly poor or lacking in opportunities.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Poverty, lack of education etc are factors <em>in the third world</em>.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Groups like ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Shabab etc are all sustained by a total failure of the state to provide security, healthcare, education etc. EG Lebanon was a very liberal country, they then had a civil war, got invaded by Israel, had another civil war, got invaded again. Had all their infrastructure destroyed & had a total breakdown in government. So if you wanted your kid to go to school they could go to the state one - which had no books, teachers or power. Or to the Hezbollah one, that had the basics, but had a pretty islamic criteria, they'd learn to read & count, but also that Allah was aces. Same with medicine, you could bribe a state employee or you could get it for free from Hezbollah. Same in Gaza. The only people providing basic care to the people are Islamists. So people embrace the Islamists.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>ISIS arose because the Sunni minority in Iraq had no jobs, no security, were excluded from power & were being routinely killed and robbed. So people embraced ISIS. Its no different to the way the Germans embraced the NAZI's in the depression. If there is no state you will take anyone offering security.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Then, if you follow the link (that the more "anti Islam" on here very much do) that every attack in the west is being done by or inspired by ISIS, surely you want to remove the root causes of ISIS?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And that is provide a functional state in the failed ones.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Its no surprise that 30 years ago we had AQ in Afghanistan (failed state) and that was largely it (the PLO, IRA etc were not gloabl terror groups, they were single cause groups at war with Israel / UK). Now with Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria all failed states in various levels of civil war we have AQ, AQIHA, Al Shabab, Boko Haram, ISIS, Nusra Front etc... almost all of which operate in several countries.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The other big different is Twitter & Facebook, Bin Laden used to record tapes & smuggle them out, al-Baghdadi just tweets. So you want to inspire those idiots in France who hate everything beacuse they are on roids, have no job, and their wife & kids left them & are looking for a reason its a whole lot easier </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="598135" data-time="1468919402">
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<p>Bollox. That is just some major fabrication. What point have we got to now in the denial stakes? Some guy kills scores, a terrorist group with a history of inspiring murderous attacks in the west claims responsibility and we get people asking them to prove it? FFS. The world has gone mad.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Would you like ISIS to also provide copies of email correspondence? A signed application form? <strong>Does it need to be witnessed by a JP?</strong></p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Surely it'd be a JW (or JJ) in thier ranks?</p>