Willising it up on a cold Invercargill day.......
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Bad week for Rugby again with another unnamed Canterbury player up on rape charges ( heard that one on the radio )
I guess not all judges are the same afterall.
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The bbc are thrashwanking over rugby here
In the Land of the Long White Cloud, heroes are clad in black. New Zealand are the world's rugby champions and the all-conquering All Blacks are idolised.
But these are dark times for New Zealand's national sport, that has become mired in scandal.
Reports on Wednesday say a member of the Mid Canterbury rugby team has been charged with assault with intent to commit rape in Gisborne, a North Island city, earlier this month.
It follows revelations that star scrum-half Aaron Smith was seen entering a toilet cubicle with a woman at Christchurch Airport. He was dropped from the squad that went on to thrash South Africa 57-15 in Durban.
Earlier this year, members of the Hamilton-based Super Rugby side the Chiefs were accused of sexually assaulting a woman paid to strip at a club function.
Dan Carter (in blue and white) plays for French team Racing 92
There was also anger recently when Losi Filipo, a highly rated teenager at the Wellington Lions, was discharged without conviction over charges of assaulting four people, including two women.
One of his victims was punched and repeatedly struck about the head, leaving him unable to work full-time because of migraines and chronic fatigue.
Then there was a bombshell in France, where the sports daily L'Equipe last week alleged that former All Blacks legend Dan Carter had failed a drug test after his club's victory over Toulon in June. The player's agent has, however, rejected any suggestion Carter was a drug cheat.
Kevin Norquay, a senior sports journalist at Fairfax Media in Wellington told the BBC the scandals and allegations have dented rugby's reputation.
"They are all slightly different but they all add up to people wondering what is going on and having the ability on social media to actually voice their opinions and say 'look, we really don't like this, we're not happy'," he said.
'Rugby is a national religion'
But such is the reverence for rugby players, there are Kiwi fans who will forgive them almost anything.
Aaron Smith made an emotional public apology after being sent home from the All Black's tour
"In New Zealand, rugby is a national religion. These guys are put on a pedestal," said Norquay.
"Even when they do things that most members of society would regard as outside the realms of what is acceptable, there will still be a large group of rugby fans who can't see anything wrong in what All Blacks do."
The BBC has asked New Zealand Rugby (NZR) how it maintains discipline and ensures that players remain role models, and what the organisation does when things go wrong. NZR has yet to fully respond to our inquiry.
So is the sport in crisis?
Rugby in New Zealand is facing a battle to recover its heroic image
One of Auckland's most respected public relations consultants thinks not, but believes there are serious issues to be addressed.
"I think take the incidents together separately [and] it's not so much a crisis, but join them all together and certainly the spotlight is on them [NZR]," said Pippa Lekner, director of The PR Shop.
"We've definitely had a cluster, which has made it a bit of a tricky one for New Zealand Rugby.
The players "will be receiving a lot of advice", she adds. "We often refer to them in the business as 'heroes of the young'. People look up to them, so I imagine that they are being reminded of that on very regular occasions," she added.
"These are young guys and if they play really well the public will forgive them."
Awkward conversation
Aaron Smith has yet to face a formal disciplinary hearing. Any sanction would come on top of a very public humiliation and no doubt awkward conversations with his partner.
The husband and wife who filmed the player and another woman from outside the toilet cubicle in Christchurch have since said they regretted handing the footage to the media and have offered Smith a formal apology.
Among some All Blacks fans there is a sense that he should be punished for what he did, but not banished from the national side.
"You won't see the New Zealand public out there trying to burn Aaron Smith's effigy," said Nigel Dobbie, a Sydney-based Kiwi supporter.
"They are very forgiving. They expect the powers that be to exercise their powers of discipline and we move on. I don't think he should be kicked off the All Blacks for what he did."
All Blacks Ben Smith, left, is tackled by Australia's Quade Cooper during the Rugby Championship test played at Westpac Stadium in Wellington, New Zealand, 27 August 2016.Image copyrightAP
Image caption
Fans will be hoping the scandals don't distract from the All Blacks' focus on their upcoming game against Australia
The men in black are the undisputed kings of the world. They are on a world record-equalling run of 17 consecutive test wins and will look forward with relish to a clash against old foes Australia at Eden Park in Auckland on 22 October.
"I have lived in Japan, France, England and Australia and I have never been anywhere where one sport is so dominant," explained Prof Richard Light from the University of Canterbury.
"People here live and die the All Blacks. In the past, when they have lost in World Cups, the economy drops.
"It is quite difficult to separate the culture of New Zealand from the culture of the All Blacks. They would have to be one of the most powerful brands in sport in the world."
But the Australian-born academic has warned that with so much power comes temptation, as Aaron Smith knows only too well.
"To me it suggests a touch of arrogance and it reflects the problem that a lot of young, highly-paid sports stars have all around the world.
"They live in a surreal bubble and are losing touch with reality." -
The higher you climb, the more people try to knock you down.
I've never met a single AB fan with the passion, sheer one-eyed craziness and ability to forgive anythying for sporting success than the average England football fan.
Does the NZRU have a bit of a PR problem at the moment - undoubtedly yes. Is that problem really worse than any other sport? No.
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I expect no worse, but for the most part, NZR have managed to keep things pretty clean, but a few less than ideal things all in a short space has really put it under the spotlight.
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[quote] I have lived in Japan, France, England and Australia and I have never been anywhere where one sport is so dominant," explained Prof Richard Light from the University of Canterbury. [\quote]
Is he for real?
Just of the 5 places I have lived NZ and rugby would rank 3rd equal.Melbourne and Aussie rules and England and Footbsll are on another scale.
God knows what places I haven't lived are like such as Spain, Italy and Sth America etc and their football culture.
NZ and rugby being a religion etc is such a myth. NZ is positively mild in their fandom.
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Now we are going to get our Willis Halaholo's mixed up
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@Rapido ha yep, what a load of tripe!
NZ fans are quite sedate compared to most, yea we boo, but nowhere near as rabid as others...we used to have more passion years back, but even then, nothing like the European football fans, crikey even the Argie rugby fans seem mad!
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@taniwharugby said in Willising it up on a cold Invercargill day.......:
@Rapido ha yep, what a load of tripe!
NZ fans are quite sedate compared to most, yea we boo, but nowhere near as rabid as others...we used to have more passion years back, but even then, nothing like the European football fans, crikey even the Argie rugby fans seem mad!
Indian cricket fans anyone?
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I honestly couldn't give a fuck about this story, it has absolutely nothing to do with me, and nothing to do with rugby. It's just another case about a weirdo, that happened to play rugby.
This weird NZ-media led attack on the NZRU is a complete load of click-bait shit.
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It is indeed unfortunate that this guy plays pro rugby, and that several events have happened in a short space of time. But considering the scandals and serious crimes some of their 'heroes' have been involved in, the English media casting stones on another country's sportsmen is beyond a joke.
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@No-Quarter said in Willising it up on a cold Invercargill day.......:
I honestly couldn't give a fuck about this story, it has absolutely nothing to do with me, and nothing to do with rugby. It's just another case about a weirdo, that happened to play rugby.
This weird NZ-media led attack on the NZRU is a complete load of click-bait shit.
How come we don't see stories highlighting the Chartered Accountants as a group every time one appears in court? Or the legal profession, or roading construction workers etc etc
While your actions may sometimes reflect poorly on your employer (if done as part of, or related to, your work) it isn't your employer's place to monitor your off work behaviour.
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@Crucial said in Willising it up on a cold Invercargill day.......:
@No-Quarter said in Willising it up on a cold Invercargill day.......:
I honestly couldn't give a fuck about this story, it has absolutely nothing to do with me, and nothing to do with rugby. It's just another case about a weirdo, that happened to play rugby.
This weird NZ-media led attack on the NZRU is a complete load of click-bait shit.
How come we don't see stories highlighting the Chartered Accountants as a group every time one appears in court? Or the legal profession, or roading construction workers etc etc
While your actions may sometimes reflect poorly on your employer (if done as part of, or related to, your work) it isn't your employer's place to monitor your off work behaviour.
Maybe because there are no "famous" chartered accountants or roading construction workers, who are considered as role models? (To be clear, I find the whole idea of rugby players/sports people as role models insane)
I'm quite sure that over the years there have been a few stories about judges/lawyers that were used to criticise the legal profession (maybe not as much as rugby, but that's - again - because they are generally not well-known).
By the way, now and then you see these lists of the least trusted professions, and surprise, surprise, journalists are the least trusted. This is from 2016:
MPs rank slightly ahead of journalists, the least-trusted group, and behind local council members, lawyers and civil servants, who are all below the half-way mark in a survey of public trust and confidence.At the other end of the scale - the occupational groups and organisations which inspire the greatest public trust and confidence - are the ambulance service, the Fire Service, doctors and nurses, the police and school teachers.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11462191
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@jegga That BBC article made me cringe, so much so I expected to see Stephen Jones byline on it. It's a fairly typical journo assassination job, it takes something that is not really measurable but quite apparent (the NZ obsession with rugby and the ABs) and then extrapolates a huge amount of bullshit from that. All I can say is sorry on behalf of the British element of the British Broadcasting Corporation.
Looking at the rest of this thread and seeing the comparisons between Kiwi rugby fans and the more feral Argies, England footy fans, any South American footy fans etc, from what I've seen I'd have to agree that there is nowhere near the level of overkill from the average Kiwi rugby fan but I'm not sure that this is the point being made. It's not the feralness (ferality?) of the fans, it is the all pervading degree of interest (I really mean more than just interest but obsession is a bit strong and I've used it once already) that is all over the country. The degree to which rugby players and rugby news is so important to NZ makes it different to anywhere else. It seems to me that this is the biggest part of Kiwi rugby strength through the years, the sheer level of importance that is attached to rugby.
Value it, enjoy the success it helps to bring and above all nurture it.
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@jegga said in Willising it up on a cold Invercargill day.......:
"You won't see the New Zealand public out there trying to burn Aaron Smith's effigy," said Nigel Dobbie, a Sydney-based Kiwi supporter.
"They are very forgiving. They expect the powers that be to exercise their powers of discipline and we move on. I don't think he should be kicked off the All Blacks for what he did."I don't get it. He cheated on his mrs, what does the kiwi public have to forgive him for?
As for Halaholo, the amount of young kids in that story is really concerning.
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I am getting sick to death of the Smith incident being lumped in with Losi and Halaholo etc.
One is a guy being a douchebag, who happened to be recorded by a pair of perverts. The others are men who committed serious crimes, and are being dealt with in the judicial system.
The fact that the trial by media has been so intense on the douchebaggery, is quite frankly disgusting and entirely out of proportion to what went on.
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not to mention, of all the things that have happened, would they all of still happened had they not been rugby players?
Did Losi assault those people because he was a rugby player? Did Halaholo do what he did cos he was a rugby player? Did the Chiefs do what they did cos they are rugby players?
I guess in Smith's case, being a famous rugby player probably gives him more opportunity, but if you are going to shag about, you aren't gonna do it just cos you are a rugby player!
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I am sure this is NZR's fault, too! Impatiently waiting for their apology ...
