BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?)
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For the BIL
1 - Furlong
2 - Best
3 - Vunipola
4 - Lawes
5 - AWJ
6 - O'Brien
7 - Warburton
8 - Faletau
9 - Murray
10 - Farrell
11 - North for me
12, 13, 14 - dunno, shapes as a weak point for the BIL I think... Maybe Sexton at 10, Farrell at 12?
15 - Halfpenny
16 - George
Res Props - Marler, Stinckler (changeable with starting props TBH)
19 - Itoje
20 - Stander
21 - Webb
22 - Sexton
23 - ??For the MIB (keeping with the Anagrams...
1 Moody
2 Taylor
3 Franks
4 Retallick
5 Whitelock
6 Kaino
7 Cane
8 Read
9 TJP
10 Beaudy
11 Reiko Ioane
12 SBW
13 Crotty (if recovered)
14 Naholo
15 Ben Smith
16 Harris
17 Crockett
18 Faumuina
19 Scotty B
20 Savea
21 A.Smith
22 Cruden
23 ALBHonestly can't see Jordie, Laumape getting a first test spot - wouldn't be surprised to see this though:
9 A.Smith
10 Cruden
11 Savea
Centres...
14 B.Smith
15 Beaudy
Cruden can probably handle that rough stuff in close a bit better, and Beaudy will be frightening coming into the backline as he pleases. B.Smith would play wing better than any options at present. The Bus looks like he has a few misfiring cylinders. -
Furlong is a tighthead and Vunipola a loosehead?
Best has got to be a joke.
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Kruis will be at lock I would think with AWJ. Lawes would be ranked 4th behind Itoje.
Owens to start at hooker for the Lions.
If we are picking an AB side on form the halfback should be TKB. As I've said previously Smith will be in the no.9 jersey.
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After three matches, taking into consideration form, fitness, fit for purpose and Gatland's tried & tested this is what I think the 1st Test 23 will look like
For the BIL
1 - Vunipola
2 - Owens
3 - Furlong
4 - Kruis
5 - AWJ
6 - O'Mahoney
7 - Warburton
8 - Faletau
9 - Murray
10 - Farrell
11 - Watson
12 - Te'o
13 - Davies
14 - North
15 - Halfpenny16 - George
17 - McGrath
18 - Cole
19 - Itoje
20 - Tipuric
21 - Webb
22 - Sexton
23 - Daly -
There is no way BB is not starting at 10 with Ben Smith at 15. Smith for the inevitable barrage of box kicks, BB to find a way through or round the rush defence.
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Lions
11-15: Just anyone that can execute a draw and pass under pressure, really. -
This is what I think they'll go with for test one:
1 Moody
2 Taylor
3 Franks
4 Retallick
5 Whitelock
6 Kaino
7 Cane
8 Read
9 A Smith
10 B Barrett
11 J Savea
12 Crotty
13 ALB
14 Dagg
15 B Smith
16 Harris
17 Crockett
18 Faumuina
19 Romano
20 A Savea
21 TJP
22 Cruden
23 SBWIf Crotty is injured, then SBW starts with Rieko on the bench.
A Smith and TJP could be either way but I think TJP offers more from the bench.
Romano can cover lock/6 with Ardie to provide the usual impact that he does.
Cruden/SBW combo for the final 20 with B Barrett dropping to 15 and B Smith to the right wing.
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bollocks, clicked on a Treason article...
headline:
Lions tour: All Blacks should be 'fearful' of Lions - upbeat British and Irish media
First line:
Jet lag seemed to have crippled the drowsy Lions, but now All Blacks coaches will have sleepless nights after watching the Crusaders lose 12-3 in Christchurch, according to British and Irish media.
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@No-Quarter Pretty close IMO. I've got Sonny-Bill locked in as a starter. I think he'll be paired with ALB due to Crotty being uncertain - but, I'm fairly sure they'd like to have all three in the match day 23.
Hansen's explanation of the midfield options and Laumape's selection (and Fekitoa's non-selection) seemed a bit convoluted - he seemed to be saying they needed Laumape as a 2nd five option, but then noted that all four of his midfielders could play 2nd five, but Crotty and ALB could also both play centre.
So, as a wildcard, I reckon Hansen might pull a swift one and pick SBW at 12, but actually play him at 13.
Taylor and Harris could swap and, as you say, A. Smith and TJP.
Dagg might be under an injury/form cloud, so we could see Rieko take his place or - as I suggested on another thread, Ben Smith move to the wing and Jordie start at fullback (which would be a big call).
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@Chris-B I'd be pretty surprised if Dagg is not picked, regardless of form. They'll want two proven fullbacks in the back three, and Dagg's boot will come in handy. As unpopular as that will be on here...
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@No-Quarter Yeah - I'm sure they'll be very keen to have Israel if he's fit. He was very good in the first half vs the Lions, but not in the second. Saw one of the English scribes referring to him as "an ailing Dagg", which reflects comments on here. If he's not 100% they can't afford to pick him - but pairing any two of Savea, Ioane, Naholo weakens the "two fullbacks" theory.
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The Crusaders game has reinforced the need to have wingers who are safe under the high ball. That makes Dagg a certainty on the right wing.
Savea will likely be their target though.
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Masterstroke from Gatland and Warburton, and showing why Warburton is the Tour Captain.
British and Irish Lions captain Sam Warburton admits he could miss out on the first Test against New Zealand.
The Wales open-side has recovered from an ankle injury to lead the side against the Highlanders on Tuesday.
But with fierce competition for places, Warburton says his current form has not yet secured a Test spot.
"If I play Tuesday and I still feel I'm a bit undercut, then I might not be ready for that first Test," said Warburton.
"Maybe that would be the situation, or maybe I could have a blinder on Tuesday and feel absolutely fine so we'll see how it goes really."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40242020
With the Test 23 starting to take shape, Warburton's anouncement / admission / kidology will keep the squad united with all feeling they have a shot at test selection if they play to their potential.
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@MiketheSnow I wasn't happy about Warburton being made tour captain when he was out injured as I felt this was Gatland painting himself into a corner (much the same as Woodward's over reliance on an injured Wilkinson in 2005). However great credit to Warburton in the way he is conducting himself. I hope he does gain sufficient fitness, he's a very good player and deserves his chance.
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@Bovidae said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Crusaders game has reinforced the need to have wingers who are safe under the high ball. That makes Dagg a certainty on the right wing.
Savea will likely be their target though.
Bring back CJ.
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No change to my 23 after tonight's match
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@Crucial Naholo was excellent under high ball. Monster in first half.
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@MiketheSnow My general impression is that you're on the money.
Webb got a rattled a couple of times tonight and maybe Laidlaw will push him?
Warburton probably did enough to see off any pressure on his spot.
Left wing is a weakness - I haven't been that impressed with Watson, but I've not seen anyone better. I thought Joseph went well on attack - has he played wing at all?
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Naholo, Dagg and Ben Smith should definitely be the back three if all are fit.
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@Chris-B. said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@MiketheSnow My general impression is that you're on the money.
Webb got a rattled a couple of times tonight and maybe Laidlaw will push him?
Warburton probably did enough to see off any pressure on his spot.
Left wing is a weakness - I haven't been that impressed with Watson, but I've not seen anyone better. I thought Joseph went well on attack - has he played wing at all?
Not sure. But Watson, Daly and Liam Williams offer more across the back three.
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@hydro11 said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
Naholo, Dagg and Ben Smith should definitely be the back three if all are fit.
Naholo made a big claim for the 11 jumper tonight, but my 23 above hasn't changed for test one. They'll be keen to have as much experience on the park as possible and Naholo is far from proven at test level (bear in my that was a weaker Lions team).
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@MiketheSnow Mark Reason is a terrible troll, but he's sometimes interesting when he might not be simply planting clickbait.
He doesn't agree with us on Warburton...
Sam Warburton reached out and somehow planted the ball over the line. It seemed like a metaphor for his tour. Held together by bandages Warburton is stretching every sinew to captain the test side.
The Welshman is a very fine man, a top leader and, at his best, a marauding flanker.
But at the moment he is a metre off his usual pace and at this level that loss of gas is catastrophic. No one has ever accused Warren Gatland of romanticism, so it will be a huge call if he includes his captain in the Saturday side on the strength of one try.*
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@No-Quarter Naholo has never looked as comfortable on the left wing. He played very well tonight and was strong under the high ball, usually a weakness.
It may mean they revisit their plans and look to include Naholo on the bench, which is a mistake as it takes away midfield cover. Moving BFA into centre should not be an option.
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@Bovidae run rieko at 11 and he can cover 13....
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If Reiko starts at 11, for Maori chance to make a statement for test. But I suspect 11/12/13/14 will be Lowe/Ngatai/Reiko/NMS. Throw in DMac and not a bad back five!
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@pakman said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
If Reiko starts at 11, for Maori chance to make a statement for test. But I suspect 11/12/13/14 will be Lowe/Ngatai/Reiko/NMS. Throw in DMac and not a bad back five!
That is a set up I would love to see the Lions kick the ball to.
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Naholo was really good, haven't seen dagg or savea have a game like that in a while, I'd pick him.
Warburton was pretty good.
I reckon Webb is horrible, if the opposition know that he tends to have a crack himself then he's not going to be that hard to stop, and hungus and halfback just don't really mix. -
@Chris-B. said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@MiketheSnow Mark Reason is a terrible troll, but he's sometimes interesting when he might not be simply planting clickbait.
He doesn't agree with us on Warburton...
Sam Warburton reached out and somehow planted the ball over the line. It seemed like a metaphor for his tour. Held together by bandages Warburton is stretching every sinew to captain the test side.
The Welshman is a very fine man, a top leader and, at his best, a marauding flanker.
But at the moment he is a metre off his usual pace and at this level that loss of gas is catastrophic. No one has ever accused Warren Gatland of romanticism, so it will be a huge call if he includes his captain in the Saturday side on the strength of one try.*
All over the place with that article.
Many saying the backrow will be Stander, O'Brien, Faletau
We'll see.
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Nigel yaldan , who seems to get good mail ,
Is claiming Naholo to start
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@pakman said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
If Reiko starts at 11, for Maori chance to make a statement for test. But I suspect 11/12/13/14 will be Lowe/Ngatai/Reiko/NMS. Throw in DMac and not a bad back five!
That is close to , as exciting as it gets for running football , lets hope they get some ball
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I know Naholo had a good game, but I still have nightmares about Savea and Naholo in Chicago. We KNOW the Lions will kick with extreme accurary - for that reason alone, it has to be IMO
Dagg + Smith + a player who's fast and has brown skin (Savea or Naholo or Ioane)
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@Crucial said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@pakman said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
If Reiko starts at 11, for Maori chance to make a statement for test. But I suspect 11/12/13/14 will be Lowe/Ngatai/Reiko/NMS. Throw in DMac and not a bad back five!
That is a set up I would love to see the Lions kick the ball to.
That you would love to see them kick badly to?
Personally I'd love to see them kick well to them as I want to see NMS peppered by precision box kicks, he was shocking in RWC semi. I want to learn more about his skills in this department.
I'll also be fascinated to see DMac dealing with test quality kicking.
I hope the Lions are on their game. If they aren't then we won't learn much.
Well, I hope there's 1 or 2 bad kicks in there as well so we can see them try to carve up.
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@kiwiinmelb said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
Nigel yaldan , who seems to get good mail ,
Is claiming Naholo to start
At Saveas expense I would expect then, and if so, it'd be good if our kicking plan involved kicking it to the opposition 11 so that Naholo has less chance to try and contest it in the air.
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Phew, I thought NZR was going to break with tradition and NOT name the AB side on a Thursday.
5 am tomorrow fellas.
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@KiwiMurph said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@Bovidae run rieko at 11 and he can cover 13....
Not sure Reiko has shown that he can play 13 yet as cover. Needs some seasoning but like Naholo is a game breaker.
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@broughie My comment was mostly tongue in cheek because I cant see them not starting Julian at 11... its just the way they operate....however Rieko looked bloody good at 13 in the second half of the French test on the End of Year Tour.
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@MiketheSnow said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
Many saying the backrow will be Stander, O'Brien, Faletau
Faletau is a certainty.
O'Brien will be in unless Warburton lets his heart rule his head and says he is Test-ready. (Although O'Brien has not had much game-time, Gatland praised him in post-match comments)6 is the uncertainty:
Stander has not impressed me (an Irish fan) for the last few months - he was not as effective in the 6N or for Munster in the end-season games as he was through 2016. Not sure if he is wrecked by too many heroic performances or has been worked-out by opposition - or a bit of both.
O'Mahoney offers some variety to big lumps - good lineout-stealer, good jackal, expert spoiler of quick ball, very mobile, good hands in open play, very experienced and a definite leader and a real mongrel mindset (offset Zinny's gripes about Faletau). BUT he does not conform to Gatland's preference for big lumps in the back row (e.g. the unfortunate Moriarity). If Gatland really rated a player with the technique-aspects of those characteristics, then Tipuric would have started for Wales far more often.
So I suspect that Gatland will go for Itoje at 6, but may regret the 1-2 penalties that his inexperience/hot-headness will probably concede. -
@Megweya said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@MiketheSnow said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
Many saying the backrow will be Stander, O'Brien, Faletau
Faletau is a certainty.
O'Brien will be in unless Warburton lets his heart rule his head and says he is Test-ready. (Although O'Brien has not had much game-time, Gatland praised him in post-match comments)6 is the uncertainty:
Stander has not impressed me (an Irish fan) for the last few months - he was not as effective in the 6N or for Munster in the end-season games as he was through 2016. Not sure if he is wrecked by too many heroic performances or has been worked-out by opposition - or a bit of both.
O'Mahoney offers some variety to big lumps - good lineout-stealer, good jackal, expert spoiler of quick ball, very mobile, good hands in open play, very experienced and a definite leader and a real mongrel mindset (offset Zinny's gripes about Faletau). BUT he does not conform to Gatland's preference for big lumps in the back row (e.g. the unfortunate Moriarity). If Gatland really rated a player with the technique-aspects of those characteristics, then Tipuric would have started for Wales far more often.
So I suspect that Gatland will go for Itoje at 6, but may regret the 1-2 penalties that his inexperience/hot-headness will probably concede.I hope not re Itoje. Although he can move to second row if needed.
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@Megweya said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@MiketheSnow said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
Many saying the backrow will be Stander, O'Brien, Faletau
Faletau is a certainty.
O'Brien will be in unless Warburton lets his heart rule his head and says he is Test-ready. (Although O'Brien has not had much game-time, Gatland praised him in post-match comments)6 is the uncertainty:
Stander has not impressed me (an Irish fan) for the last few months - he was not as effective in the 6N or for Munster in the end-season games as he was through 2016. Not sure if he is wrecked by too many heroic performances or has been worked-out by opposition - or a bit of both.
O'Mahoney offers some variety to big lumps - good lineout-stealer, good jackal, expert spoiler of quick ball, very mobile, good hands in open play, very experienced and a definite leader and a real mongrel mindset (offset Zinny's gripes about Faletau). BUT he does not conform to Gatland's preference for big lumps in the back row (e.g. the unfortunate Moriarity). If Gatland really rated a player with the technique-aspects of those characteristics, then Tipuric would have started for Wales far more often.
So I suspect that Gatland will go for Itoje at 6, but may regret the 1-2 penalties that his inexperience/hot-headness will probably concede.Agree re Falletau. On form O'Brien would just get the nod from me but it is likely Gatland will go with Warburton and to be fair it would be a close call in any case. 6 Is the one though. Moriarty was looking good, O'Mahoney has improved considerably on his first outing and I feel Stander has gone backwards just s little. However he is being given game time so this makes me think he is still in the mix.
In this company Itoje should be nowhere near the back row.
It's almost as if the bench is easier to call than the run on side. I could easily see a bench of any tow props, Owens or George and then Itoje and Tipuric, no matter who gets the nod to start, though if O'Brien starts Warburton will be there instead of Tipuric but shouldn't be.
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@Catogrande it's hard to go past O'Brien. Hard nosed defender, quick and seems to be in the play a lot.
