Eden Park
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"Limited to 21 night events a year".
That's not really that much of a constraint if we're being honest, is it?
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@Rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
"Limited to 21 night events a year".
That's not really that much of a constraint if we're being honest, is it?
Depends if you include all NPC, Super Rugby and Cricket day nighters. THat would get to 21 rather quickly?
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@Hooroo said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Rapido said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
"Limited to 21 night events a year".
That's not really that much of a constraint if we're being honest, is it?
Depends if you include all NPC, Super Rugby and Cricket day nighters. THat would get to 21 rather quickly?
Yeah suppose so, plus Warriors if talking a single centralised stadium.
Forcing administrators to schedule some kid-friendly day games isn't a totally bad thing though. Next generation and all that, lots of greying hair in rugby stadiums these days.
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It takes 35mins to walk from the centre of the city to Eden Park. I live in the CBD and attend every game and almost always walk.
Why do people keep repeating this myth that its far away?There's loads of buses and there is a train station outside. The only problem is car parking.. I would remove domestic cricket from the ground and decommission Eden Park number 2.
Use it as match day parking and encourage tailgate gatherings before the games.. plant a few trees to make it more pleasant
It wouldn't solve the parking issue but it would take some of the pressure off the suburban streets -
Also note the usage of the term 'national stadium'
Like last time this came up I bet that the sums are based around the majority of AB games being moved to Auckland
The rugby market was saturated this month. A good crowd for the Blues vs Chiefs, followed by sellouts for the two Lions Tests. However in between there was an abysmal crowd for the other All Blacks Test. Putting the majority of games at one location won't work
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@Duluth - except its a car free zone unless you live in the area - which is required because otherwise the buses would get caught in the traffic.
Like you the myth that EP is in the boonies is laughable. I've walked it many times. Public transport is a breeze and free. I was ordering my first beer in Takapuna within 30 minutes of the final whistle on Saturday.
Even driving is easy if you know the best streets to park in (like home from a RWC match within 45 minutes). But that's a secret I will take to the grave.
This is a politically motivated campaign - although the EP Residents Assoc are a bunch of ass clowns
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@Duluth There was also 40k for Blues v Lions (another chance to bring up this game
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They should have built the waterfront stadium when they had the opportunity.............................................................................................
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If you know where to park it's only a 10 min walk to Eden Park and for the likes of myself, you get easy access back to the motorway. But you do need to arrive early.
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I'm a non Aucklander who has never had a problem getting to or out of Eden Park. The way it is spoken about you'd think it was in a remote bush suburb stranded by itself and that every other park in the world was in the heart of the city with ample free parking nearby.
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@Nepia said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
I'm a non Aucklander who has never had a problem getting to or out of Eden Park. The way it is spoken about you'd think it was in a remote bush suburb stranded by itself and that every other park in the world was in the heart of the city with ample free parking nearby.
Yeah. I love the idea of a Waterfront stadium, that would be fucking awesome, but I've never had any issues at all with Eden Park. Every game I've been too has been stress free getting there and back on the train, no dramas at all.
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So in order to address the debt issue, they want to spend money on a new stadium..?
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@Nepia said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
I'm a non Aucklander who has never had a problem getting to or out of Eden Park. The way it is spoken about you'd think it was in a remote bush suburb stranded by itself and that every other park in the world was in the heart of the city with ample free parking nearby.
Most medium sized cities tend to be content with their stadiums if they meet one of two categories - completely downtown and fully integrated into public transport (MCG, Skydome, Soldier Field, Suncorp etc) or suburban with ample parking (Allianz, SdF, Camp Nou).
Eden Park is not quite downtown, but also brutal to get parking for anything other than an Auckland Aces game. It's like SCG/SFS but without all the parking around Moore Park.
For me building a ~22-30k national cricket stadium away from Eden Park is priority 1, then we can proceed with the national rectangular stadium debate in 7-10 years.
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@rotated said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
For me building a ~22-30k national cricket stadium
National? Shorthand for best?
There has been talk of converting Western Springs into a cricket ground. Anyone have any thoughts on that option?
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@Duluth Now off the table as Akl Cricket said they would continue to use EP#2 for domestic cricket and NZC wanted EP#1 for ODI's and T20's
Surprisingly Council didn't think much of developing the ground for it to be only used for 5 days/year (at most)
Whilst it would make a better ground for cricket - oval smaller scale. Access would be much worse than EP
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@Bovidae said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
If you know where to park it's only a 10 min walk to Eden Park and for the likes of myself, you get easy access back to the motorway. But you do need to arrive early.
Yep, I live in West Auckland and drive to Eden Park (takes 15-20mins tops), park ten min walk away and I'm home in less than 30mins every game I've been to (AB Tests, Blues games, etc). And that's walking with kids under ten.
Eden Park is easy to get to, and now it's been upgraded a very good experience.
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It's kind of perverse that the reason Auckland Cricket don't want to move away from Eden Park is that as one of the beneficiary owners of the trust board, they get decent dividends from the events revenue (that they couldn't generate independently). Yet neither the council nor the national govt want to own it because it is a debt ridden financial sinkhole.
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@Kirwan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Bovidae said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
If you know where to park it's only a 10 min walk to Eden Park and for the likes of myself, you get easy access back to the motorway. But you do need to arrive early.
Yep, I live in West Auckland and drive to Eden Park (takes 15-20mins tops), park ten min walk away and I'm home in less than 30mins every game I've been to (AB Tests, Blues games, etc). And that's walking with kids under ten.
Eden Park is easy to get to, and now it's been upgraded a very good experience.
Speaking of Upgrade, the facilities for getting refreshments is excellent and mirrors most modern stadiums where it has a supermarket style checkout. When there for first Lions test, we never had to wait more than a few mins to grab beers etc.
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@Hooroo said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Kirwan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Bovidae said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
If you know where to park it's only a 10 min walk to Eden Park and for the likes of myself, you get easy access back to the motorway. But you do need to arrive early.
Yep, I live in West Auckland and drive to Eden Park (takes 15-20mins tops), park ten min walk away and I'm home in less than 30mins every game I've been to (AB Tests, Blues games, etc). And that's walking with kids under ten.
Eden Park is easy to get to, and now it's been upgraded a very good experience.
Speaking of Upgrade, the facilities for getting refreshments is excellent and mirrors most modern stadiums where it has a supermarket style checkout. When there for first Lions test, we never had to wait more than a few mins to grab beers etc.
Out of interest, do they sell anything other than Tui at Eden Park?
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@hydro11 said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Hooroo said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Kirwan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Bovidae said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
If you know where to park it's only a 10 min walk to Eden Park and for the likes of myself, you get easy access back to the motorway. But you do need to arrive early.
Yep, I live in West Auckland and drive to Eden Park (takes 15-20mins tops), park ten min walk away and I'm home in less than 30mins every game I've been to (AB Tests, Blues games, etc). And that's walking with kids under ten.
Eden Park is easy to get to, and now it's been upgraded a very good experience.
Speaking of Upgrade, the facilities for getting refreshments is excellent and mirrors most modern stadiums where it has a supermarket style checkout. When there for first Lions test, we never had to wait more than a few mins to grab beers etc.
Out of interest, do they sell anything other than Tui at Eden Park?
No Tui anymore in my experience. I had steinlager green can't remember if they had anything other than light beer. Could be worse, could have been that mid strength shit they serve at the cricket. Had a fritz's bratwurst too which was predictably good
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@hydro11 said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Hooroo said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Kirwan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Bovidae said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
If you know where to park it's only a 10 min walk to Eden Park and for the likes of myself, you get easy access back to the motorway. But you do need to arrive early.
Yep, I live in West Auckland and drive to Eden Park (takes 15-20mins tops), park ten min walk away and I'm home in less than 30mins every game I've been to (AB Tests, Blues games, etc). And that's walking with kids under ten.
Eden Park is easy to get to, and now it's been upgraded a very good experience.
Speaking of Upgrade, the facilities for getting refreshments is excellent and mirrors most modern stadiums where it has a supermarket style checkout. When there for first Lions test, we never had to wait more than a few mins to grab beers etc.
Out of interest, do they sell anything other than Tui at Eden Park?
God, I hate Tui Beer! During the AB matches they sell Steinlager which is also dross baut a bit more palatable. Unfortunately at Eden park it was in those awful plastic bottles.
At the Maori game is came in little black cans and seem to taste ok there.
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@dogmeat said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@Duluth Now off the table as Akl Cricket said they would continue to use EP#2 for domestic cricket and NZC wanted EP#1 for ODI's and T20's
Surprisingly Council didn't think much of developing the ground for it to be only used for 5 days/year (at most)
Whilst it would make a better ground for cricket - oval smaller scale. Access would be much worse than EP
What ever happened to the plan from a couple of years back where they were going to convert Eden Park #2 into a hotel complex?
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@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Here we go again
I, for one, think we should have a goddamn long term plan for accommodating multiple professional sports team in teh Auckland region.
People jus tneed to make smart decisions, and bring fans along for the ride. Warriors don't want to go to Eden Park. I don't blame them. I love Eden Park when full, but it's a soulless, poorly designed monstrosity otherwise. It sucks for cricket (short form).
Transport links are all to the city centre. Pubs are all in the city centre. A good stadium down there would be amazingballs.
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@nzzp said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Here we go again
I, for one, think we should have a goddamn long term plan for accommodating multiple professional sports team in teh Auckland region.
People jus tneed to make smart decisions, and bring fans along for the ride. Warriors don't want to go to Eden Park. I don't blame them. I love Eden Park when full, but it's a soulless, poorly designed monstrosity otherwise. It sucks for cricket (short form).
Transport links are all to the city centre. Pubs are all in the city centre. A good stadium down there would be amazingballs.
If they built a purpose built stadium for code, that could also house concerts downtown they just need a main ground for cricket. Eden Park and Mt Smart ultimately become secondary venues. Am i right that the eden park trust is a separate entity from the council anyway? There was talk of developing Western Springs but the parking is terrible.
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@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
If they built a purpose built stadium for code, that could also house concerts downtown they just need a main ground for cricket. Eden Park and Mt Smart ultimately become secondary venues. Am i right that the eden park trust is a separate entity from the council anyway? There was talk of developing Western Springs but the parking is terrible.
If you develop downtown, EdeN park becomes defunct and you probably sell it.
Google shows me that it is around 380 x 650 m, or around 247,000m2. Not sure fo the zoning, but with the transport links it's goign to be able to developed as high intensity housing. If yo ucan get $1k/m2, you're talking $250M or so. That gets you a very long way towards a new stadium downtown, and a cricket facility somewhere else. Shows teh folly of pumping money into Eden Park over the last 20 years, with masterplanning that can't even get a concourse on one level around the stadium.
Obviously, this ignores the issue of it being owned by a private trust, but is posted for discussion
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@nzzp said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
If they built a purpose built stadium for code, that could also house concerts downtown they just need a main ground for cricket. Eden Park and Mt Smart ultimately become secondary venues. Am i right that the eden park trust is a separate entity from the council anyway? There was talk of developing Western Springs but the parking is terrible.
If you develop downtown, EdeN park becomes defunct and you probably sell it.
Google shows me that it is around 380 x 650 m, or around 247,000m2. Not sure fo the zoning, but with the transport links it's goign to be able to developed as high intensity housing. If yo ucan get $1k/m2, you're talking $250M or so. That gets you a very long way towards a new stadium downtown, and a cricket facility somewhere else. Shows teh folly of pumping money into Eden Park over the last 20 years, with masterplanning that can't even get a concourse on one level around the stadium.
Obviously, this ignores the issue of it being owned by a private trust, but is posted for discussion
My thoughts exactly. But I was unsure how their ownership structure works. Who are the eden park trust, and if the funding dried up and they sold, who gets the money, the council or the trust?
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@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
My thoughts exactly. But I was unsure how their ownership structure works. Who are the eden park trust, and if the funding dried up and they sold, who gets the money, the council or the trust?
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@canefan it sounds like the trust is a bit farked
"Despite the very generous financial contributions from the government and the council, Eden Park does not have a viable long-term future as it is not able to fund depreciation or pay down its debt while its operating environment remains constrained... we do not believe Eden Park can trade its way out of the current situation without ongoing financial support from either the government or the Council, and even then the stadium will continue to have limited use.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11888811
Basically they are losing money operationally, even without considering depreciation. Not viable long term. Amazing that we as taxpayers pumped a couple of hundred million into it a few years ago.
also, for the leagle beagles amongst us:
and from Schedule 1
The Objects for which the Trust is continued are:
(a)
To promote, operate and develop Eden Park as a high quality multi-purpose stadium for the use and benefit of rugby and cricket (including under the organisations of ARU and ACA respectively pursuant to their rights under this deed) as well as other sporting codes and other recreational, musical, and cultural events for the benefit of the public of the Region; and
(b)
To administer Eden Park and the Trust Assets on a prudent commercial basis so that Eden Park is a successful financially autonomous community asset.
4.2
In promoting, operating and developing Eden Park, the Trustees in fulfilling the Trustees’ duties as prescribed by this deed will have due regard to the needs of, and contributions made by, and historical interests of, ARU and ACA, and the contributions of the Crown, and shall make relevant determinations as regards use and access to Eden Park in implementing the Objects based on these and all other relevant circumstances which the Trustees shall in their discretion deem appropriate. -
@nzzp said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan it sounds like the trust is a bit farked
"Despite the very generous financial contributions from the government and the council, Eden Park does not have a viable long-term future as it is not able to fund depreciation or pay down its debt while its operating environment remains constrained... we do not believe Eden Park can trade its way out of the current situation without ongoing financial support from either the government or the Council, and even then the stadium will continue to have limited use.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11888811
Basically they are losing money operationally, even without considering depreciation. Not viable long term. Amazing that we as taxpayers pumped a couple of hundred million into it a few years ago.
also, for the leagle beagles amongst us:
and from Schedule 1
The Objects for which the Trust is continued are:
(a)
To promote, operate and develop Eden Park as a high quality multi-purpose stadium for the use and benefit of rugby and cricket (including under the organisations of ARU and ACA respectively pursuant to their rights under this deed) as well as other sporting codes and other recreational, musical, and cultural events for the benefit of the public of the Region; and
(b)
To administer Eden Park and the Trust Assets on a prudent commercial basis so that Eden Park is a successful financially autonomous community asset.
4.2
In promoting, operating and developing Eden Park, the Trustees in fulfilling the Trustees’ duties as prescribed by this deed will have due regard to the needs of, and contributions made by, and historical interests of, ARU and ACA, and the contributions of the Crown, and shall make relevant determinations as regards use and access to Eden Park in implementing the Objects based on these and all other relevant circumstances which the Trustees shall in their discretion deem appropriate.Right, so they can sell off the land just like they did in Wellington. The land around there is worth heaps, will be a significant chunk of the cost. Perhaps the government can designate EP a kiwi build site and pay over the odds for it? The EP residents association will be thrilled with all that construction for a few years, and the traffic, the consolation is their house prices will continue to rise
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The drums continue to beat for the end of EP. Speedway at waikaraka park, cricket at Western Springs, code and concerts at a new purpose built stadium. Sorted.
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@canefan said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
The drums continue to beat for the end of EP. Speedway at waikaraka park, cricket at Western Springs, code and concerts at a new purpose built stadium. Sorted.
Hoorrraaahh!!! Western Springs is fairly easy to get to isn't it? Test Cricket at Eden park is just wrong.
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More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion? Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
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@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
Could something better be built for $1.5 billion. Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
The Cake Tin cost $130M in late 90's dollars.
$1.5B is if you have unilimited amounts of other peoples money to throw around. Like Phil does.
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@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion. Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
It's all cool bruv, it will be covered by the petrol tax.
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@hooroo said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion. Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
It's all cool bruv, it will be covered by the petrol tax.
Am I going to get my rubbish collected, a sewerage system and sealed roads as well?
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@snowy said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@hooroo said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
@duluth said in Eden Park - the fortress no one wants:
More evidence that the downtown stadium is just an ego project for Goff.
Cricket going to Western Springs is a good thing. Also it would also free up more event days for Eden Park
Eden Park is fine for Rugby. It's walking distance from the city and has a train station outside.
The North Stand is 20 years old and the South Stand isn't even 8 years old! I am extremely sceptical about the urgent need for $800 million in upgrades. That seems like a number Goff is throwing around to make the $1.5 billion new stadium appear more reasonable.Could something better be built for $1.5 billion. Of course. Thats a lot of ratepayer/taxpayer money
It's all cool bruv, it will be covered by the petrol tax.
Am I going to get my rubbish collected, a sewerage system and sealed roads as well?
When it becomes a great white elephant, it is purpose built for rubbish.....
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All the cases that are based on the development value of EP land ignore the significant outstanding debt,
@canefan Planning for parking at a sports venue is plain dumb. One of the main advantages of a CBD site is public transport access.
Getting to and from EP is piss easy. Actually better served than Western Springs although if there was a light rail station there that could change the dynamic. Both are city fringe anyway. To hear some talk they are in Kumeu or Papakura
Eden Park Trust Act 1955
