Springboks v England - Test #2
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Has the RFU still got Lancaster's number?
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@mikethesnow said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
Has the RFU still got Lancaster's number?
If the damage is as bad as it looks on the surface bringing in someone new without the option of also changing a huge amount of the personnel won't work at all.
These guys haven't just lost confidence in Eddie's plans they have lost confidence in themselves.
The post match stuff isn't just 'we are hurting' it is frustration in themselves, worry, having to deal with not being as good as you thought you were etc
IMO a new coach would also have to stamp a new regime in place very quickly.
The possible saving grace is that Eddie's style is very 'hard' and someone new could go the other way and try to make trainings and squad work 'fun' to refresh things.The RFU have made a statement of support that was even shorter than a Ben Youngs interview.
BTW: the reason the BY interview was rude was that he walked of while still talking. Think of when someone tries that move on you. Being a pro sportsperson also means sometimes gritting your teeth and facing up. He could have said no more than he did but finished it by looking at the presenter in the eye and saying 'that's all I have at the moment sorry'
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@crucial said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@mikethesnow said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
Has the RFU still got Lancaster's number?
If the damage is as bad as it looks on the surface bringing in someone new without the option of also changing a huge amount of the personnel won't work at all.
These guys haven't just lost confidence in Eddie's plans they have lost confidence in themselves.
The post match stuff isn't just 'we are hurting' it is frustration in themselves, worry, having to deal with not being as good as you thought you were etc
IMO a new coach would also have to stamp a new regime in place very quickly.
The possible saving grace is that Eddie's style is very 'hard' and someone new could go the other way and try to make trainings and squad work 'fun' to refresh things.The RFU have made a statement of support that was even shorter than a Ben Youngs interview.
BTW: the reason the BY interview was rude was that he walked of while still talking. Think of when someone tries that move on you. Being a pro sportsperson also means sometimes gritting your teeth and facing up. He could have said no more than he did but finished it by looking at the presenter in the eye and saying 'that's all I have at the moment sorry'
I was being rather facetious
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@mikethesnow said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@crucial said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@mikethesnow said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
Has the RFU still got Lancaster's number?
If the damage is as bad as it looks on the surface bringing in someone new without the option of also changing a huge amount of the personnel won't work at all.
These guys haven't just lost confidence in Eddie's plans they have lost confidence in themselves.
The post match stuff isn't just 'we are hurting' it is frustration in themselves, worry, having to deal with not being as good as you thought you were etc
IMO a new coach would also have to stamp a new regime in place very quickly.
The possible saving grace is that Eddie's style is very 'hard' and someone new could go the other way and try to make trainings and squad work 'fun' to refresh things.The RFU have made a statement of support that was even shorter than a Ben Youngs interview.
BTW: the reason the BY interview was rude was that he walked of while still talking. Think of when someone tries that move on you. Being a pro sportsperson also means sometimes gritting your teeth and facing up. He could have said no more than he did but finished it by looking at the presenter in the eye and saying 'that's all I have at the moment sorry'
I was being rather facetious
I know, but with the RFU nothing would be a surprise. Lancaster is actually a very good coach but his time at the helm showcased just what I was saying. Unless you come in at a time of major personnel change the underlying issues are very difficult to wipe away.
We have seen this happen time and time again. -
@crucial said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@mikethesnow said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@crucial said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@mikethesnow said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
Has the RFU still got Lancaster's number?
If the damage is as bad as it looks on the surface bringing in someone new without the option of also changing a huge amount of the personnel won't work at all.
These guys haven't just lost confidence in Eddie's plans they have lost confidence in themselves.
The post match stuff isn't just 'we are hurting' it is frustration in themselves, worry, having to deal with not being as good as you thought you were etc
IMO a new coach would also have to stamp a new regime in place very quickly.
The possible saving grace is that Eddie's style is very 'hard' and someone new could go the other way and try to make trainings and squad work 'fun' to refresh things.The RFU have made a statement of support that was even shorter than a Ben Youngs interview.
BTW: the reason the BY interview was rude was that he walked of while still talking. Think of when someone tries that move on you. Being a pro sportsperson also means sometimes gritting your teeth and facing up. He could have said no more than he did but finished it by looking at the presenter in the eye and saying 'that's all I have at the moment sorry'
I was being rather facetious
I know, but with the RFU nothing would be a surprise. Lancaster is actually a very good coach but his time at the helm showcased just what I was saying. Unless you come in at a time of major personnel change the underlying issues are very difficult to wipe away.
We have seen this happen time and time again.True that
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The RFU have today given Eddie Jones their full backing.
That normally means he'll be gone in 3-4 weeks...
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They are stuck with Eddie until the next WC, that is 100% guaranteed.
I say stuck with, but I think he's a good coach and will see them fine. They have looked a little toothless of late, but I don't think (with the exception of the last match) they have really fallen that far behind the opposition. It's a shit time to be touring right now - injuries, end of season etc.
Results certainly haven't been good enough, and changes to approach are required, but I still think EJ is the right man.
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It's the whole Press & RFU expecting instant results which creates a vicious circle. Too much looking for quick fixes, looking for the next "wonder-player" import* and patting themselves on the back when winning. And not enough looking at the deep seated problems.
It's a bloody, never-ending mess which has claimed the likes of Lancaster, Johnson & Best. No wonder decent coaches are loath to get involved with the England job.
You have to seriously feel for the decent Pom rugby supporter
*Rumours that the RFU pressured Lancaster into picking Sam Burgess still abound
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@majorrage said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
It's a shit time to be touring right now - injuries, end of season etc.
I take your point, but that hasn't stopped Ireland (regardless of next week's result) and Wales having successful tours.
The problems lie much deeper with almost open warfare between the clubs and Jones, a cash-strapped RFU and falling participation in the game.
Cant blame Jones for taking £750k when it's waved enthusiastically in his face
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@victor-meldrew yep, fair points. Although I would argue hoarsely that right now, SA is a tougher place to be touring than either Australia or Argentina. The opposition is better, and Ireland is borderline playing home tests.
Australia have looked good though, so nothing should be taken away from them.
Ireland are a better team than England at this point in time though, that is unarguable.
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@victor-meldrew said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
You have to seriously feel for the decent Pom rugby supporter
Yep - I know the guy, and I do feel sorry for him.
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@victor-meldrew said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
It's the whole Press & RFU expecting instant results which creates a vicious circle. Too much looking for quick fixes, looking for the next "wonder-player" import* and patting themselves on the back when winning. And not enough looking at the deep seated problems.
It's a bloody, never-ending mess which has claimed the likes of Lancaster, Johnson & Best. No wonder decent coaches are loath to get involved with the England job.
You have to seriously feel for the decent Pom rugby supporter
*Rumours that the RFU pressured Lancaster into picking Sam Burgess still abound
Burgess was an RFU sponsored pick, Bath were just the club that agreed to take him on. They played him mainly at 6 but England wanted him at 12 because SBW.
From what I understand it wasn't Wasps that went looking for Shields either...
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Or Manu Tuialgi: Ma'a Nonu without the skills, nous or attitude.
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@victor-meldrew said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
Or Manu Tuialgi: Ma'a Nonu without the skills, nous or attitude.
Yeah, a reasonable comparison, though I would say that when None came on the scene he was all thud and blunder, his skill set improved dramatically over time. Sadly Tuilagi has had neither time nor perhaps the guidance.
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@catogrande said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
@victor-meldrew said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
Or Manu Tuialgi: Ma'a Nonu without the skills, nous or attitude.
Yeah, a reasonable comparison, though I would say that when None came on the scene he was all thud and blunder, his skill set improved dramatically over time. Sadly Tuilagi has had neither time nor perhaps the guidance.
Nor teh basic skills I sense...
England need to stop the carbon-copying and have the confidence to develop their own style of players.
The number of times I've seen talented players buggered about by England rugby makes me shake my head in disbelief.
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@victor-meldrew said in Springboks v England - Test #2:
England need to stop the carbon-copying and have the confidence to develop their own style of players.
One of the articles I read yesterday alluded to England still trying to find an identity. IMO much of this comes from the domestic set up and the premiership 'style' being different to what coaches want at test level, but is does seem that England don't 'own' a way of playing that they have made their own.
Because of that, when they try and play a certain way they doubt themselves when something doesn't go to plan. -
I think the the issue is what I saw in UK business during my career - poor leadership, fixation on short-term gain, incestuous management, hiding problems and confusing confidence with bullshit and arrogance*
Ask any group of supporters and they know what needs to be done. No-one in the RFU or Premiership has the balls to call it for what it is. (I have some sympathy with Jones on the latter point). Personally, I think it's the amount of money swilling around the clubs that's stopping action being taken. Wales, Ireland and Scotland are moving forward with a far less money-driven structure.
Perhaps another RWC disaster might provoke something or someone to grab the bull by the horns. I hope so.
*That said, the best companies I've worked with have been British
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