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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
What makes Folau different to this is that religion is protected, and titty pics aren't. The issue is that they are genuinely held religious beliefs - and international human rights pitch those directly against the damage done by being a homophobe.
Interestingly, if he'd posted solely on homosexuals without the cover of being Christian, he'd not have a leg to stand on. It's the religion that makes this a confounding factor.
Also, I'm with you if you want to get titty pic distribution protected as a human right
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@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
I believe he posted while on PAID leave from the Waratahs (which he is pictured wearing on his Twitter acc)
So that maccas guy only has to wait for his shift to end and he’s free to say what he wants there?
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@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
If a Mcdonalds employee gave a sermon every tine he served a customer a shitty Big Mac or kids happy meal, shouted all gays will burn in hell.
How long will he hang onto his job for?How fucken dare you.
Big Macs are so 1980’s -
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
If a Mcdonalds employee gave a sermon every tine he served a customer a shitty Big Mac or kids happy meal, shouted all gays will burn in hell.
How long will he hang onto his job for?How fucken dare you.
Big Macs are so 1980’sThe 80s were also nourishing and tasty.
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@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
I believe he posted while on PAID leave from the Waratahs (which he is pictured wearing on his Twitter acc)
So he wasn't at work?
So that maccas guy only has to wait for his shift to end and he’s free to say what he wants there?
What part of the location are you having difficulty grasping?
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@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
FIIK.
Could you argue that his public profile means he's always "at work"?
You'd think so, otherwise anything goes outside the training paddock, team meetings, and game day.
But wait: what times on game day?
I wonder - all these people defending Folau's right to free speech... would they be as staunch in defending him if he was a Muslim?
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It keeps being said that Folau can hold whatever beliefs he wants. He just can't publicly express them while in the employ of someone who has expressly forbidden him to say that.
If I share titty pics around my workplace, or associate my work with titty pics, I'd expect much the same punishment. And let me tell you: my position as Exalted First Cardinal in The Church Of Titty Pics wouldn't save me.
But of course, once you go down the "MAH FREEDUMB!" path, nobody can possibly win except the people holding shit beliefs.
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
Sharing titty pics around the workplace would constitute sexual harassment and would be dealt with as such, and can be taken to the Employment Court to resolve. That is not the same thing as posting religious beliefs on your personal social media account. Not even close.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It keeps being said that Folau can hold whatever beliefs he wants. He just can't publicly express them while in the employ of someone who has expressly forbidden him to say that.
If I share titty pics around my workplace, or associate my work with titty pics, I'd expect much the same punishment. And let me tell you: my position as Exalted First Cardinal in The Church Of Titty Pics wouldn't save me.
But of course, once you go down the "MAH FREEDUMB!" path, nobody can possibly win except the people holding shit beliefs.
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
Oh good someone else who wants to use the lame consequences angle...and put free speech in quotes. Saying there are consequences is just a truism and adds nothing to the discussion but an example of facile thinking. People are debating the consequence not saying there isnt any , there is a consequence to every action. So facile statements saying people should be prepared for consequences adds nothing of value.
And so what if free speech is used quite often by shit people to say shit things. What is a shit thing and who is a shit person is entirely in the eye of the beholder. I think your post was shit speech (and vice versa I am sure) should I delete your post and threaten you that if you disagree with me again on free speech you will be banned?
No, of course not. That would be a ludicrous and all my lame justifications of 'you were warned' and knew the consequences wouldn't change that me trying to silence a valid and genuine held opinion that didnt contain personally targeted abuse is a dick move. And before you claim I delete your posts, I dont . -
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It keeps being said that Folau can hold whatever beliefs he wants. He just can't publicly express them while in the employ of someone who has expressly forbidden him to say that.
If I share titty pics around my workplace, or associate my work with titty pics, I'd expect much the same punishment. And let me tell you: my position as Exalted First Cardinal in The Church Of Titty Pics wouldn't save me.
But of course, once you go down the "MAH FREEDUMB!" path, nobody can possibly win except the people holding shit beliefs.
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
Sharing titty pics around the workplace would constitute sexual harassment and would be dealt with as such, and can be taken to the Employment Court to resolve. That is not the same thing as posting religious beliefs on your personal social media account. Not even close.
But both examples are bringing the Employer into disrepute. Same principle....
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
FIIK.
Could you argue that his public profile means he's always "at work"?
You'd think so, otherwise anything goes outside the training paddock, team meetings, and game day.
But wait: what times on game day?
I wonder - all these people defending Folau's right to free speech... would they be as staunch in defending him if he was a Muslim?
Yes, but I doubt it would be even in the public eye. If a Muslim posted that I would think he a is moron. Just like I do with Folau.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
FIIK.
It goes to the analogy.
Could you argue that his public profile means he's always "at work"?
Putting everything else aside that raises questions of when can a public person (and what defines that) ever have the prospect of private time. RA (and NRL/ AFL etc.) could deal with this to a large extent by having a basic contractual stipulation that players/ coaches etc. don't have social media profiles or accounts. Doesn't stop someone else from whipping out their camera though.
You'd think so, otherwise anything goes outside the training paddock, team meetings, and game day.
But wait: what times on game day?
I wonder - all these people defending Folau's right to free speech... would they be as staunch in defending him if he was a Muslim?
I would. To me it's exactly the same issue.
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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It keeps being said that Folau can hold whatever beliefs he wants. He just can't publicly express them while in the employ of someone who has expressly forbidden him to say that.
If I share titty pics around my workplace, or associate my work with titty pics, I'd expect much the same punishment. And let me tell you: my position as Exalted First Cardinal in The Church Of Titty Pics wouldn't save me.
But of course, once you go down the "MAH FREEDUMB!" path, nobody can possibly win except the people holding shit beliefs.
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
Sharing titty pics around the workplace would constitute sexual harassment and would be dealt with as such, and can be taken to the Employment Court to resolve. That is not the same thing as posting religious beliefs on your personal social media account. Not even close.
But both examples are bringing the Employer into disrepute. Same principle....
No it isnt. But that will be for the courts to decide. You cannot just fire employees for being dicks in their own time. Imagine if someone attended a climate change protest and the employer didnt like green taxes so fired the person for bringing the company into disrepute... courts would slaughter the employer, and that isnt even touching the freedom of religion angle.
Or if you are drunk one night and yell out an expletive to a mate across the road in jest, you think you could be fired for bringing the company into disrepute? -
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
Sharing titty pics around the workplace would constitute sexual harassment and would be dealt with as such, and can be taken to the Employment Court to resolve. That is not the same thing as posting religious beliefs on your personal social media account. Not even close.
But both examples are bringing the Employer into disrepute. Same principle....
Actually NQ's got it right.
If I shared the pics OUTSIDE my place of work, then the "disrepute" argument comes into play. If I'm doing it internally its a different story.
EDIT: The sexual harassment part is entirely down to who sees the pics and what they're of. At one workplace they started out with the "report everything or else" angle but realised swiftly that people aren't in control of external email - internal being different.
In some cases you could even get done for having the pic on your phone as you scroll past stuff on SM.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
I think your post was shit speech (and vice versa I am sure) should I delete your post and threaten you that if you disagree with me again on free speech you will be banned?
I don't think for a moment that anybody is unaware of the merits of free speech on TSF.
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@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
I believe he posted while on PAID leave from the Waratahs (which he is pictured wearing on his Twitter acc)
So he wasn't at work?
So that maccas guy only has to wait for his shift to end and he’s free to say what he wants there?
What part of the location are you having difficulty grasping?
Not having any difficulty at all.
Clearly my example is a differing employment situation. -
@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
I think your post was shit speech (and vice versa I am sure) should I delete your post and threaten you that if you disagree with me again on free speech you will be banned?
I don't think for a moment that anybody is unaware of the merits of free speech on TSF.
I disagree I think there are plenty of posters who dont know the merits of free speech at all. I dont blame them, I blame the media who has easily influenced them into being prepared to let large entities decide for them what free speech means.
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@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
I believe he posted while on PAID leave from the Waratahs (which he is pictured wearing on his Twitter acc)
So he wasn't at work?
So that maccas guy only has to wait for his shift to end and he’s free to say what he wants there?
What part of the location are you having difficulty grasping?
Not having any difficulty at all.
Clearly my example is a differing employment situation.Well I don't see the relevance to Folau. However in your case, I'd sack the tourettes suffering clown.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions