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The downfall is that he admitted to breaching his contract and the expert panel concluded that was the basis for termination of his agreement.
Where did this information come from?
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@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
The downfall is that he admitted to breaching his contract and the expert panel concluded that was the basis for termination of his agreement.
Where did this information come from?
I read this article that infers RA asked him to delete the offending post and he refused as his Dad told him he would go to hell if he did. Maybe that is his admission?
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@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
If the court sees this as a freedom of speech issue the ARU are poked. Freedom of expression is guaranteed by the Bill of rights, regardless of how distasteful his words were
Australia doesn't have a Bill of Rights.
Well that's my argument farked then isn't it! I see they have a constitution. Does it protect freedom of speech?
No. There's a limited form of free speech implied but that's political, not religious.
Folau's legal team have made the smart move in framing this in the Federal Court as an unfair termination. That's the primary issue for the court to decide on given religion is a protected attribute.
I expect that the Federal Court will determine the extent of this protection, i.e. whether identifying as Christian, Buddhist, etc. prevents you from being fired or actually exercising your religion to the extent of preaching. And if you can preach, is this restricted to your own time etc.
So do you reckon the content of his tweets has any bearing?
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@antipodean said in The Folau Factor:
Where did this information come from?
It is in this article here: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/rugby/inside-the-hearing-the-fatal-mistake-that-crucified-israel-folau/news-story/17236a1054b653d8b51a9a92c00afdab
The key paragraphs:
Under intense cross examination from top lawyer Justin Gleeson SC on the first day of his code of conduct hearing, Folau made the fatal acknowledgment. Asked if he understood that his social media posts could offend people, Folau, who had been expertly manoeuvring around the admission by repeatedly pointing back to the words being from the Bible, finally said he did. The next morning, a Sunday, Folau’s lawyers walked into the hearing and stunned Rugby Australia’s silks by admitting to a low-level breach of the player’s code of conduct. Gleeson then continued to grill Folau over the remaining two days as to whether, having admitted to the breach, he could take his post down and guarantee he would not make a similar post in future. Folau, already believing he would go to hell if he deleted his post, could guarantee neither. He admitted guilt to an offence, but would not take steps to rectify that offence, and gave no promises he would not commit another offence. The case was done at that moment.
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@barbarian I don't get the DT. I had hoped that RA had released the panel's finding in a report rather than a sports journalists writing hearsay, however accurate it may be.
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@antipodean I believe they did release the finding (essentially he was guilty of the breach), but I can understand why they didn't release the back-and-forth of the hearing itself.
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
@antipodean I believe they did release the finding (essentially he was guilty of the breach), but I can understand why they didn't release the back-and-forth of the hearing itself.
What could be an interesting legal argument if the ARU seek to use the transcript of the CoC proceeding is procedural fairness. Whilst not the place of the Fair Work Commission to determine but if Folau says that he was not afforded procedural fairness given the public comments of the ARU prior to the CoC hearing (eg we are moving to terminate Folau’s contract), then it might weigh on the admissibility of that evidence.
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
I'd suggest the ARU and rugby more broadly gave Folau access to money and opportunity he never could have gained in the NRL or AFL.
His profile has grown exponentially around the world since he moved to rugby.
Given his AFL contract was reported as being $6 million over 4 years, signing for $5 million over 4 years seems like a step down now, no? Also for every contract he has signed with the ARU there has been an equal or better contract elsewhere, mostly in France.
The profile question is more arguable. With SBW, not unlike Izzy, sure he has better name recognition in rugby playing nations since the code switch but in terms of where his profile drives revenue in both cases I would say it is equal or has waned somewhat since the code switch. Regardless, in both cases they had sufficient a profile in league to command big bucks in France straight out of league in the late 00's as did Hunt and to a lesser extent Gasnier.
Like SBW and the NZRU to argue the Folau and ARU was nothing but a transactional relationship is the type of fanciful thinking that has got the ARU where they now are.
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AR have had an appalling record with highly paid poached leagies. Sailor and KHunt done for cocaine, Walker had all kinds of discretions, and Tiquri also got the arse for disciplinary reasons. And now of course we have Finugen potentially bringing Aus rugby to the point of bankruptcy. Here's an idea, don't spend millions on league stars. Idiots.
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The connection between League and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 escapes me.
Brad Thorn and Sonny Bill came from that same professional culture, and neither has been a detriment to the AB culture, indeed I think they’ve both contributed positively to the culture, especially in regards to training, discipline, work ethic, keeping their noses clean, etc. Both are fairly religious too.
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Jesus, the Waratahs are soft. Several years back the Crusaders went through an earthquake, played rejigged match fixtures all over the place and made the final. Israel Folau tweets Corinthians and the Waratahs need mommy to tuck them into bed.
Wounded Wallaby: Waratahs blame Folau for wrecking their season
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12238866
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A bit simplistic. They lost their best player and most prolific tryscorer in a very public and disruptive way.
The comparison to the Saders is unfair. Teams can 'bind together' in hardship (where everyone is equally affected), but this was different. One player just walked out mid-season, and took a few blokes with him. It undoubtedly divided the dressing room, and I'm not surprised it had a detrimental effect on performance.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
Jesus, the Waratahs are soft. Several years back the Crusaders went through an earthquake, played rejigged match fixtures all over the place and made the final. Israel Folau tweets Corinthians and the Waratahs need mommy to tuck them into bed.
Wounded Wallaby: Waratahs blame Folau for wrecking their season
I'd take that NZ Herald's take on it with a grain of salt. Even Phipps deserves to have his words taken in context and as Fitzpatrick says:
"It's been pretty glaring that there's been some stuff going on in our team but full credit to our guys and the resilience they've shown in really trying to stick to the job week to week,""I don't want to use that as an excuse because I feel we've prepared well, had game plans specifically prepared for the teams we were playing."
They weren't exactly on fire prior to this fiasco, so it's a bit rich to suggest that this is the reason the season has been shit. Phipp's passing can explain a healthy percentage...
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Nick Phipps.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11725503
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11701335
So he is a bit of a whiney, petulant child that makes excuses i.e. a halfback
(but yes it must have been a bit off putting).
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@ACT-Crusader said in The Folau Factor:
@Snowy let’s not forget his cheating in the World Cup QF against Scotland.
or urinating in a public premises
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@Mokey said in The Folau Factor:
I saw Folau was trending on twitter last night, and it was for another anti-gay rant at his church.
To be honest, I wish the media would stop giving this twat a platform and oxygenising his bullshit. His sermons don't need to be reported on.
That's not going to happen unfortunately and feeds nicely into the conspiracy theory I heard at club rugby on the weekend; namely that the rights are coming up and it suits News Ltd to not have to pay a premium, so the more they report on it the more the brand is damaged in the short term.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions