Coronavirus - Overall
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@nta said in Coronavirus - Overall:
So being vaccinated 100% saves his life?
For that pissing on the dead prose to be cogent then the vaccine would have to definitely save his life, wouldn't it?
How come vaccinated people die "of" covid then?
Or am I misinformed? Have no vaccinated people ever died of covid?
I'll keep repeating this in the off chance it'll click in your brain. Being vaccinated would have reduced his chance of being seriously ill and dying.
If you stopped watching youtube videos and listened to the scientists and doctors instead the numbers would be obvious to you.
2 years in and we are still having to explain this? Vaccination has been around for a long time. It has all but eradicated numerous potentially fatal illnesses. It isn't a new thing and I wish people wouldn't act like it is
I understand your point of view perfectly well. I totally agree that the vaccine reduces the chance of death and hospitalisation.
I'm all for the elderly getting the vaccine and encourage them to do so.
I disagree with the absolute terms that are used to express this reduced risk.
Many problems around this pandemic have arisen, in large part, because the effectiveness of this vaccine have been grossly overstated. That's not to say it isn't useful, it is very useful. However the sycophancy of these vaccines has retarded the development and usefulness of, for example early treatment, naturally acquired immunity, preventative health strategies (preparing your body and health for infection), identifiable at risk cohorts, and wholistic health consideration for children.
The false pretence that vaccinated neither contract or spread covid is an example of the absolute terms governments are using when referring to vaccination. The vaccine mandate calamity is proof of this. Governments forbade nurses to work on the basis of a claim that was never proven sufficiently for such harmful policies to be rushed through.
There is a lot more nuance to vaccine effectiveness than has been universally reported (and indeed expressed by my own written submissions and comments on here, I'm at fault here too).
This zero sum game argument that our authorities have used has opened the door to such authoritarianism the likes western democracies have never seen. A feature of that has been their communication and misinformation about vaccine effectiveness - it won't necessarily stop Nana from dying.
My aim all along on here is not for us to argue and fight about our disagreements but to implore governments to properly address the concerns of all citizens and health experts and address the nuances in our questions and the obvious disparities in their messaging. To exhibit some accountability. What role has natural immunity in the vaccine mandate policy being a prime example of one of those.
And, to another point, the talking head on MSM or even a politician or appointed health authority is no guarantee of message authenticity or accuracy, especially when huge sums of money, censorship and job security are at play. Surely we can all agree on that. The clothes someone wears doesn't effect the veracity of objective data
This whole saga started with a wet market lie where we waded through misinformation and censorship and job loss. As has the infection spreading vaccine mandate drama, so forgive me for applying the "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" principle in such a complex issue.
The world keeps turning and while we've been fixated on virus and vaccine messaging, other cracks in society are appearing that need addressing quicksmart. Applying the covid problem solving "hammer" strategies to them might make the past two years seem a triviality.
There is NO going back to a pre 2019 normal.
I'm sorry for the constant gloom, but I'm old enough to know "she'll be right mate, it'll all be fine" is not the correct message to a cancer sufferer. Early identification and treatment is.
And yes, getting a vaccine is a very good message, but it ain't the only one. This vaccine didn't make the pathogen go away like others have. It hasn't "all but eradicated" covid.
Beautifully though it seems nature, in the form of a mutated virus, has dramatically cleaned up a man made mess that started in Wuhan.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@jc Wow that's a lot of effort and 61 pages to come up with the wrong conclusion.
A more accurate summary would be Lockdowns don't work unless you're lucky enough to implement them very early.
And then when you come out of lockdown..?
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@siam you are correct it’s not the only one but it’s the most effective. Whether promoting dead unvaxxed people is a good strategy Is a different argument.
Chances are the vax may have saved him, true. But he made his decision and that is his right. It’s no different to a motorcyclist vs a car driver in an accident. The biker knew the risk and took it.
I battle within myself as I strongly believe in removing any state funding health care from the unvaxxed. But that’s not really my political belief which is pro choice.
So in summary, I understand your POV, your reasons behind your POV, but I’m not sure I agree with it. Mainly because I don’t know what I think, or stand for, anymore.
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@majorrage thanks mate, I feel I'm in the same boat as you, possibly just not sitting directly beside you.
If that doesn't make sense, well welcome to the whirling interior of my head.
Nothing makes complete sense, except something is definitely not right🙂Oh, and this pandemic response definitely isn't all that collective humanity is capable of. School Report card reads, not your best effort.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@majorrage thanks mate, I feel I'm in the same boat as you, possibly just not sitting directly beside you.
If that doesn't make sense, well welcome to the whirling interior of my head.
Nothing makes complete sense, except something is definitely not right🙂Oh, and this pandemic response definitely isn't all that collective humanity is capable of. School Report card reads, not your best effort.
We are in unity on that one.
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Shits getting a bit real in the South Pacific. Kiribati cases doubles in 3 days, Solomans 6, Palau 6, Samoa 11. Tonga in lockdown. Although Samoa seems to have contained it and Tonga is only a coupole of cases the others are all in the hundreds of new cases
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Shits getting a bit real in the South Pacific. Kiribati cases doubles in 3 days, Solomans 6, Palau 6, Samoa 11. Tonga in lockdown. Although Samoa seems to have contained it and Tonga is only a coupole of cases the others are all in the hundreds of new cases
i will google myself but does anyone know what their Vax rates are like?
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@kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Shits getting a bit real in the South Pacific. Kiribati cases doubles in 3 days, Solomans 6, Palau 6, Samoa 11. Tonga in lockdown. Although Samoa seems to have contained it and Tonga is only a coupole of cases the others are all in the hundreds of new cases
i will google myself but does anyone know what their Vax rates are like?
It varies.
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Was just musing ...
That if China were to finally give up elimination. Using current Australia situation at the moment. Assume well vaccinated with mild omricon circulating as the first major spread of the virus. Extrapolating Australia's 7 day average of 88 per day - The China death rate would still be 5000 per day average.
Not a health disaster on their scale, but it would look bad compared to the official global comparison numbers so far. (but would not actually touch the true unofficial India delta wave peak).
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Actually. Maybe I am being too naive above. Maybe China has already had plenty of waves knocking out the weaker, so an opening up omricon wave would be milder than Australia's? Not that any official numbers would be worth reporting either way.
China is another story. Its official statistics understate the Chinese Covid death rate by 17,000% (according to The Economist’s model).
In fact, based on excess mortality calculations, The Economist estimates that the true number of Covid deaths in China is not 4,636 – but something like 1.7 million.
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@rapido said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Was just musing ...
That if China were to finally give up elimination. Using current Australia situation at the moment. Assume well vaccinated with mild omricon circulating as the first major spread of the virus. Extrapolating Australia's 7 day average of 88 per day - The China death rate would still be 5000 per day average.
Not a health disaster on their scale, but it would look bad compared to the official global comparison numbers so far. (but would not actually touch the true unofficial India delta wave peak).
I am sure they could make those bad numbers disappear, they are good at things like that....
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@catogrande you're joking, thats mad
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I love stats like that. One that always sticks in my mind was that during WW2 there were more British deaths on the road than war casualties until D Day. That’s 5 years out of the 6.
Gee. Amazing. But, I'd want to fact check that one. Just doesn't sound right.
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@kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@rapido it did occur to me i didn't think cars were THAT prevalent yet and definitely didn't go as fast etc....hmmm
Scratching the surface:
Road toll obviously high back then, obviously.
48 million population. About 9k road deaths per year in 1940 and 1941. (bit of a bump from wartime activity, but toll just high back then)
Today population of UK is 67 million, and road deaths per year are about 1750 -
@rapido said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@rapido it did occur to me i didn't think cars were THAT prevalent yet and definitely didn't go as fast etc....hmmm
Scratching the surface:
Road toll obviously high back then, obviously.
48 million population. About 9k road deaths per year in 1940 and 1941. (bit of a bump from wartime activity, but toll just high back then)
Today population of UK is 67 million, and road deaths per year are about 1750and another quick google
Blitz: 40,000 civilians died in the seven-month period between September 1940 and May 1941
and thats just civilians
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@catogrande Like everyone else I think this though a great stat is BS.
It's hard to find precise data but I think there's enough to debunk it
I can only find road fatality stats going back to 1950. Across the 1950's the UK average was 5,400 p.a. That would have been higher in the 40's because of blackout conditions I guess but I doubt it would be that much higher.
The BEF suffered 11,014 killed or died of wounds in 1940. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Expeditionary_Force_(World_War_II)#Casualties
You then have to add casualties from the Battle of Britain, Battle for the Atlantic, Norway...