Ankle Advice



  • OK, I've got knackered ankles. Mild arthritis mainly due to age according to the GP. She's suggested exercises to strengthen the muscles around the joints and the feet. While she's happy to refer me to a physio, she said it's probably better I look around for injury-recovery programs and try things out to find out what works best for me.

    Now there's loads of stuff on the web, but has anyone used any specific program or sets of exercises which have helped recover from injuries they can suggest?



  • @Victor-Meldrew said in Ankle Advice:

    OK, I've got knackered ankles. Mild arthritis mainly due to age according to the GP. She's suggested exercises to strengthen the muscles around the joints and the feet. While she's happy to refer me to a physio, she said it's probably better I look around for injury-recovery programs and try things out to find out what works best for me.

    Now there's loads of stuff on the web, but has anyone used any specific program or sets of exercises which have helped recover from injuries they can suggest?

    I’d go to a physio. Pick the right one and they’ll cut through the bull and give you the appropriate exercises



  • My ankles are fucked. I have no advice because the only thing I can do is make sure of my footing

    Good luck. Ain't getting old a bitch?

    But yeah, see a physio, if you get a good one they are basically wizards



  • 30 years of (mostly) bball, 15 ankle sprains/ligament tears, and 1 fracture.

    =

    2 x healthy doses of arthritis

    I feel your pain

    Find a quality sports physio, but don't expect miracles. Slow steps towards better mobility, lots of strengthening, loads of stretching. Ideal outcomes are better range, more strength in the ligaments, and more flexibility (my real problem).

    I had an arthroscopy on 1 ankle a couple of years ago, wouldn't recommend it unless a last resort.

    Good luck!



  • I'm working on ankle mobility for squatting. Reckon there would be plenty of carry over benefits from this sort of content bro.

    That guy makes some mint material - well worth checking out.



  • I'm a qualified physio so is my gf we have both worked with world class athletes which I assume you are in that class....

    I would sign up to this site https://atgonlinecoaching.com/ (I have no affiliation ) do one of their lower limb programs....game changer.

    Would also add in some single leg balance work get to 30 seconds before progressing

    • single leg standing with eyes open
    • eyes closed
    • eyes open on a pillow
    • eyes closed on a pillow

    Bench mark 20-30 single leg calf raises (with one finger on the wall for balance but no weight through that hand)

    20 hops on the spot. Make a mark so you are practicing landing on that specific spot. Progress to making a small diamond or square shape. Hop to each corner and back to the middle. Keep balance and maintain landing on specific spots. Progress to triple hop for distance landing on the third hop.

    If any don't make sense hit me up but the atg stuff is good get stuck in.not just for ankle but whole body stuff.

    Follow a few guys who do it on insta

    Keegan real movement (he just trained sbw before Canada using lots of this stuff)
    Ezra Taylor
    Troy savage
    Kneesovertoesguy



  • @Magpie_in_aus said in Ankle Advice:

    I'm a qualified physio so is my gf we have both worked with world class athletes which I assume you are in that class....

    I'm pretty good at Candy Crush.... 😎

    That's really good advice/ideas and a good place to start - been using a balance board and that seems to have improved things a fair bit so this should move things along. Already exercise daily which has been a game changer on my knees but need to get the ankles improved. The web site looks real good too.



  • @canefan

    I'm a huge fan of physios and osteopaths.

    Had a bulging disk in my neck 10 years ago (insanely painful) and the physio introduced me to the McKenzie method - where the problem is diagnosed and the patient chooses from range of exercises - which killed the pain off in 3 days.

    My GP was building on this approach and getting me to try a few things to see what works for me.



  • @voodoo said in Ankle Advice:

    arthroscopy

    Thanks for all the replies.

    Some real good stuff and appreciated.



  • I also wouldn't overlook seeing a podiatrist given a lot of ankle issues are related to foot issues and vice versa.

    I had for years, since my late 20's when I fully ruptured my left achillies tendon, suffered from chronic Achilles/heel issues. It started in my right achillies as I must have been favouring my left and I was suffering what is called Haglunds syndrome with tendonitis, bursitis and bone growth around the achillies itself.

    In my early 40's, the left which hadn't been too bad after surgery started to ache and I ended up with the same issue in the left, Haglunds syndrome.

    I'd been to physios, sports medicine specialists and was ready to give up and go under the knife. When I saw the orthopedic surgeon and he took me through the details of the surgery which was to detach the achillies from the bone, scrape off the bone growth, try to treat the bursae and then reattach which would mean a 12-18 month recovery, I started looking for alternatives.

    After some significant online research, I found some good recommendations for the Heel Clinic nearby and basically these guys are all podiatrists treating heel and foot issues. They used a high quality slow motion video to record your walk and run and then do the analysis.

    I ended up with custom made orthotics which weren't cheap but I can confirm that within a month of starting to wear the orthotics I was pain free for the first time in years and almost 3 years later I am still pain free in both achillies.



  • @voodoo said in Ankle Advice:

    arthroscopy

    I had it on my knee in 1999 and played half a dozen more seasons of rugby without issue, Specialist said my knee was buggared and wouldnt be able to play, Physio said I'd be fine as long as I kept the knee strong...



  • @taniwharugby that awesome.



  • @taniwharugby said in Ankle Advice:

    @voodoo said in Ankle Advice:

    arthroscopy

    I had it on my knee in 1999 and played half a dozen more seasons of rugby without issue, Specialist said my knee was buggared and wouldnt be able to play, Physio said I'd be fine as long as I kept the knee strong...

    I had one in my early twenties. Strengthened the muscles, specifically my vastus medialis was lazy and my ITB was very tight. It's been fine ever since.



  • @RoninWC yeah I had something similar - had a groin injury when I hit my 20's which meant I basically couldn't run for almost a year - lead to me finding the gym in putting on about 20kg in 6 months. Once the groing injury was fixed (by a laparoscopic bilateral inguinal hernia repair), I found that I couldn't run without getting severe shin splints.

    Cue eventually finding this genius podiatrist John Sloane who I went to see and did a digital bio-mechanical assessment of me running, etc. Turns out due to being just bones for 20 years I'd been running on my toes for everything and with the extra (healthy) weight this put too much strain on my lower legs....so I had to completely reinvent my running style. Soooo fuuuuucken hard - but got there!



  • @Bones

    Can relate to that.

    Mrs Meldrew's son is a pretty decent marathon & 10k runner and had big problems with leg & shin injuries until he re-modeled his running action. He's so quiet now and light-footed when he runs it's eerie.

    The other big improvement came from chucking trainer-type running shoes & wearing very thin-soled running shoes instead as the human foot is designed to run bare-foot.



  • @Victor-Meldrew yeah I used to buy the cheap but "cool" looking running shoes with massive heels, etc. They got ditched quick smart.



  • Once you find a shoe that works, never turn back. I personally can't stand big heel-to drops and "spongey" feel. I like flat and hard, which I don't think is recommended for someone my build, but they work for me. I only wear variations on Adidas Boost shoes now.



  • @mariner4life said in Ankle Advice:

    Good luck. Ain't getting old a bitch?

    An ad for mobility scooters came up on my FB page today, FFS.

    GFYS Facebook, I'm aiming to be still be riding my Hondas when I'm 75



  • @voodoo said in Ankle Advice:

    Once you find a shoe that works, never turn back. I personally can't stand big heel-to drops and "spongey" feel. I like flat and hard, which I don't think is recommended for someone my build, but they work for me. I only wear variations on Adidas Boost shoes now.

    Yep, I solved a lot of my running issues with a shoe that makes heel strikes uncomfortable, so I have to land mid foot.



  • @voodoo
    Completely agree with this and the Adidas Boost range has been my go to for several years now. The latest Ultra Boost is the best shoe I
    ever worn.

    Also trying the New Balance version, called fresh foam, and found them to be almost as good and they are cheaper.

    The one thing I'm still struggling with is finding an equivalent good shoe for work. I've tried Ecco brand and a couple of others and nothing has really worked well.

    Any recommendations for a good black/brown work shoe?



  • @RoninWC aware this makes me sound like a basic bitch.. but sketchers have some quite good semi-formal shoes with decent cushioning. Just avoid lulu lemon πŸ˜‰



  • @Paekakboyz said in Ankle Advice:

    @RoninWC aware this makes me sound like a basic bitch.. but sketchers have some quite good semi-formal shoes with decent cushioning. Just avoid lulu lemon πŸ˜‰

    Can't hurt to check them out. I'm very open minded at this stage.

    To be honest, I tend to wear chinos to work so I can wear my Ultra Boosts which are black but with a very obvious white coloured sole which are so comfortable but my Director has raised his eyebrows at my attire a couple of times.



  • @RoninWC maybe you shouldn't have your feet up on your desk so often πŸ˜‚



  • @RoninWC said in Ankle Advice:

    @Paekakboyz said in Ankle Advice:

    @RoninWC aware this makes me sound like a basic bitch.. but sketchers have some quite good semi-formal shoes with decent cushioning. Just avoid lulu lemon πŸ˜‰

    Can't hurt to check them out. I'm very open minded at this stage.

    To be honest, I tend to wear chinos to work so I can wear my Ultra Boosts which are black but with a very obvious white coloured sole which are so comfortable but my Director has raised his eyebrows at my attire a couple of times.

    runners and chinos?

    dude



  • @mariner4life said in Ankle Advice:

    @RoninWC said in Ankle Advice:

    @Paekakboyz said in Ankle Advice:

    @RoninWC aware this makes me sound like a basic bitch.. but sketchers have some quite good semi-formal shoes with decent cushioning. Just avoid lulu lemon πŸ˜‰

    Can't hurt to check them out. I'm very open minded at this stage.

    To be honest, I tend to wear chinos to work so I can wear my Ultra Boosts which are black but with a very obvious white coloured sole which are so comfortable but my Director has raised his eyebrows at my attire a couple of times.

    runners and chinos?

    dude

    You should see what our techs wear some days.



  • @mariner4life said in Ankle Advice:

    @RoninWC said in Ankle Advice:

    @Paekakboyz said in Ankle Advice:

    @RoninWC aware this makes me sound like a basic bitch.. but sketchers have some quite good semi-formal shoes with decent cushioning. Just avoid lulu lemon πŸ˜‰

    Can't hurt to check them out. I'm very open minded at this stage.

    To be honest, I tend to wear chinos to work so I can wear my Ultra Boosts which are black but with a very obvious white coloured sole which are so comfortable but my Director has raised his eyebrows at my attire a couple of times.

    runners and chinos?

    dude

    and did I mention the Under Armour polo shirt?



  • @RoninWC said in Ankle Advice:

    @mariner4life said in Ankle Advice:

    @RoninWC said in Ankle Advice:

    @Paekakboyz said in Ankle Advice:

    @RoninWC aware this makes me sound like a basic bitch.. but sketchers have some quite good semi-formal shoes with decent cushioning. Just avoid lulu lemon πŸ˜‰

    Can't hurt to check them out. I'm very open minded at this stage.

    To be honest, I tend to wear chinos to work so I can wear my Ultra Boosts which are black but with a very obvious white coloured sole which are so comfortable but my Director has raised his eyebrows at my attire a couple of times.

    runners and chinos?

    dude

    and did I mention the Under Armour polo shirt?

    quite the picture



  • @mariner4life said in Ankle Advice:

    @RoninWC said in Ankle Advice:

    @Paekakboyz said in Ankle Advice:

    @RoninWC aware this makes me sound like a basic bitch.. but sketchers have some quite good semi-formal shoes with decent cushioning. Just avoid lulu lemon πŸ˜‰

    Can't hurt to check them out. I'm very open minded at this stage.

    To be honest, I tend to wear chinos to work so I can wear my Ultra Boosts which are black but with a very obvious white coloured sole which are so comfortable but my Director has raised his eyebrows at my attire a couple of times.

    runners and chinos?

    dude

    and I do consider the Ultra Boosts as a "lifestyle shoe" rather than a runner πŸ˜‰



  • shorts and a polo for me unless i have to see a client, even then, this is Northland, so you dress appropriately πŸ™‚

    Hush puppies are quite comfy

    One of our Directors is very much old school though, luckily he is in Auckland I rarely see him, but he drives here in a tee, puts on his crisp white shirt and tie when he arrives.



  • @Victor-Meldrew I injured my ankle in April during a hike which wasn't coming right after an ultrasound/mri I had a GP tell me in October that I'd never run again and would have to minimise time on my right ankle. Thankfully my sister put me on to an awesome physio who after some 3 months of work I can now run short distances, completed the tongariro crossing last week relatively pain free and no longer walk with a limp first thing in the morning. GP seemed to just see the word 'arthrosis' and figured that was the end. Physio has had me doing a world of calf workouts as he figured correctly that that was the underlying cause, says anyone over a certain age has some form of arthritis but it rarely means anything too serious. I my case staying off of it was doing more harm than good. Anyway highly recommend shopping around for a good physio, who is also a runner, seems to be a different mindset runners vs non-runners.



  • @Rembrandt said in Ankle Advice:

    I my case staying off of it was doing more harm than good. Anyway highly recommend shopping around for a good physio, who is also a runner, seems to be a different mindset runners vs non-runners.

    That's really good advice. Thanks

    I'm reasonably active for my age, just the ankles are getting worse not better. I'm going to try a few gentle things out fron here for a few weeks and see what happens. I'll then be able to chat to eh physio with a bit more info available.



  • @RoninWC said in Ankle Advice:

    @voodoo
    .

    Any recommendations for a good black/brown work shoe?

    Sorry no, nothing I've ever bought more than once.



  • Here is an ideal way to transition down in your shoes. Big leaps from one extreme to the other isn't great

    https://therunningclinic.com/en/minimalist-index/

    Here is a rant i previously wrote on another tread

    Tips for running:
    You have heaps of time before your run so I would try and completely change your running technique. I have worked with 100's of runners and this always leads to decreased overuse injuries, more running efficiency and even increased enjoyment with running.

    Biggest change is work on changing your cadence (steps per minute) most recreational runners have 140-160 steps per minute. This leads to heel striking, increased stress through your joints, increased force through anterior aspect of the leg (aka shins), increased demand on your glute med to control more movement (from heel strike to toe coming off) usually as that fail/fatigue you will get a valgus strain on your knee.(knee going in and 'arches collapsing') causing knee injuries. The majority of people don't need anti pronating shoes they need to improve their running technique.
    Step 1: Get a metronome on your phone. Your aim should be build towards running at 180 steps per minute at the same pace. This means more smaller steps ideally landing on your mid foot rather than your heel. Use the metronome while you run. This will feel weird and also make your calves burn....thats normal until they get use to it.
    Step 2: Keep running how you normally do to keep your K's under the belt....I want you to transition to this new way of running over 3-6 months until its your new technique.
    Start over the next four weeks doing either as a warm up or a session during your week doing 1km in this technique. I recommend week 1) 10x100m at your normal pace week 2) 5x200 3)3x400 4) 2x500 next week start running your first 1km (or what you can tolerate) in your new style and slowly increase 500m-k each week. I usually find when you can hit 5km you are onto a winner. No need to rush it.
    Tip 2:
    Work on glute stability and control:
    Do as many as possible of these a day: Single knee bends: Line your foot up on a line so its dead straight (will feel weird). Keep upper body upright and bend your knee. Dont worry about depth worry about keeping your hips square and try and get your knee over the line of your middle toes. Best in barefeet but try and do 1x10 all throughout the day you will improve quickly.
    3x8 daily: Single leg glute bridge. Start with your hands/arms on the ground for support as you improve put one hand over your shoulder then both hands. Squeeze from your butt to lift up dont swing up from your leg. Once you can do that hit me up and I will progress.

    Tip 3:
    Start foam rolling:
    This sucks to start off with. Only start this program if you can do it for 21 days straight. If you can you will see progress if not you will just keep being sore.
    1 roll = up and down
    3 sets each day. Add one roll to just one of the sets each day. Start with 3x3 work up to 3x10.
    Eg
    Day 1: 3x3 rolls on each leg
    Day 2: 2x3 and 1x4
    Day 3: 1x3 2x4
    Day 4: 3x4
    If that doesn't make sense let me know.
    The rolls at 3,4,5 will hurt way more than 8/9/10. Once you get to 3x10 it should just be mildly uncomfortable and just continue to do 1x10 either before or after your run.

    Tip 4:
    Start progressing to slightly more minimlist shoes. This site is amazing. https://therunningclinic.com/en/minimalist-index/
    Find a similar type of shoe and figure out your % when you need a new pair of shoes (probably every 3-6 months depending on K's. Try and progress 10-20% down the minimilist scale (less heel support). These shoes will be lighter and make running easier. If you have improved your running technique heel support is irrelevant. Every 100g is something like a 1% more oxygen efficency so lose weight both inside and out.

    Tip 5:
    Load management. People blow out by increasing stuff too fast. Don't go and catch up on some K's by doing extra long runs or more long runs in a week. Stick to your program progress no more than 10% in either increase in distance or decrease in time. Its hard but worth it to avoid tendon overload.

    Tip 6:
    Read a book called born to run its great. Also read you can't hurt me but take inspiration not training techniques from that crazy fucker. Also Unbreakable RUnner has a great training program in it (book)

    Tip 7:
    Read all the above again and throw in the towel haha no just kidding get amoungst it, future you will thank yourself.



  • @Magpie_in_aus awesome post mate. I read Born To Run a few years back. While I didn't buy a pair of the leather sandals, I definitely subscribed to their thinking around step length, which also ties into your point around cadence. Paraphrasing, but one guy from the tribe said of mountain running, "if you're not sure whether to take 2 steps or 3 before the boulder, take 4". Wisdom.



  • @Magpie_in_aus said in Ankle Advice:

    Get a metronome on your phone. Your aim should be build towards running at 180 steps per minute at the same pace.

    just d/l and listened to it at 180 bpm...jeepers!!



  • went for a run last night, well walk up the stairs, run on flat and down...my ave cadence over the run is 69 (looking back over my last half dozen runs it is about that too - although these have largely been trail runs with steep incline/decline) 180 seems impossible!

    I'll wait until the shorter evenings when I am forced to run on roads/paths before I look at this cadence thing a bit closer.

    I have however had PBs on segments of my runs the last few times too, not sure what to attribute that to.



  • @taniwharugby
    I just checked my most recent run a few days ago. Ave cadence 163, max 176, ave stride length 1.27m (I'm about 6'2 if that's revelant). That was over 8km of pretty flat tarmac

    Not too far off @Magpie_in_aus !

    Max heart rate was 182 though 😨



  • @voodoo my ave HR last night was 174, max 192...only 3.59km, but half of 'run' is ascending

    But my resting HR (while sleeping) is ave of 58 (has dropped form about 62 in last 6 months)



  • Good work. Are you sure your cadence figures are right? What sort of pace are you running?



  • @voodoo

    9.47mins per km is the ave pace

    20200214_113747.jpg


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