-
@No-Quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@No-Quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan Then masks are effective in prevention, right? So why say they are not?
Once they are damp most standard masks cease to be an effective barrier to tiny particles. But they will catch droplets. If you have the virus then it prevents transmission because it catches your droplets when you cough or sneeze. If you don't they will catch droplets if someone happened to sneeze at you. I read an article where in China and Taiwan, for example, they recommend masks because it seemed to seemed to reduce panic in their people. Here they recommend against widespread use unless you are sick. So the reasoning behind wearing them are varied. If you live in a densely populated country, if for example you rode the underground train daily to work, I could fully understand you wearing one. But walking down the street in Auckland? Probably unneccessary
Yeah I don't think you need a mask when going for a walk outside. My understanding is the virus is far far more likely to spread indoors, for obvious reasons I'd say. That's why I wear a mask to the supermarket - put it on when I go in and bin it when I leave. If everyone did that then the virus would struggle to spread very far.
Used the supplied sanitizer and washed their hands when they got home before anything else
Absolutely, but none of that will help if you've been in close contact with someone that has the virus, which is hard to avoid in supermarkets.
And that's what annoys me - we've shut down our entire economy for this, so by that measure its extremely serious. But when it comes to masks, which are proven to stop the spread from infectious people, we're actively going the other way and telling people not to bother. So is it serious or not? If it is then we wear masks, if it's not then we don't bother.
There are a lot of people with Covid-19 that don't know they have it. Symptoms vary from asymptomatic, to very mild, to moderate right through to severe, so this is the perfect virus to encourage the use of masks when indoors.
-
@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@booboo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Is it possible that both
- DHBs are getting plenty of supplies
- Frontline staff are not
Can both be true?
Possible - given the nature of DHB operations, within DHB dispersions, and varying expectations of clinical staff.
I was surprised at a noticeable difference in resources between three wards of very same hospital last year [/individual anecdote], so...
Talking to my friend you and Booboo are on the right track. As a clinician his take is that management stand between the healthcare staff and the logistics staff. Management are saying hold off, dont use, and wont necessarily be telling the logistics teams what they want and need. Just his opinion, held by a few other doctors and hospital dentists I know
-
Not sure if this was posted earlier in the thread. A Google report on the changes in people’s movement:
NZ PDF (from March 29)
Other Countries
-
I am incredulous that the govt still increased minimum wage at the same time as unemployment is going to sky rocket.
-
89 new cases, 49 confirmed, 40 probable: 1,039 in total
156 recovered
15 in hospital, 3 in ICU, 2 are critical (which I assume happened overnight as I thoght the single one yesterday was stable)
12 clusters (10+ to become a cluster)Apparently modelling had us at over 4,000 cases by now if we didnt go into lockdown when we did...
-
@taniwharugby there seems to a lag in reporting
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I am incredulous that the govt still increased minimum wage at the same time as unemployment is going to sky rocket.
Not surprised at all.
NZ measures both production and demand GDP, but demand GDP is the one used as the headline rate to define the size and performance of the economy. If there are large permanent wage cuts/reductions as a result of Covid-19, the economy as measured by GDP will crater for a lot longer than if we come out of lockdown and wages return to their old levels quickly.
A common concern has been how to avoid Covid-19 impacting the economy any more than necessary, and a key part of that is to keep demand afloat for when the lockdown ends, companies go back to work, and supply has demand to sell to.
We will also probably have to rely on Keynesian measures beyond just wage subsidies and higher benefits. Government is currently working on infrastructure programmes to roll out ASAP, and the provincial growth fund has been diverted into similar programmes.
-
Your theory holds up.... possibly.. in an environment with low unemployment, wages wont return to previous levels, because they cannot if you expect businesses to survive.
Companies will not commit to new hires if they have wage inflation, which is exactly what raising the min wage in a high unemployment era does. The last thing you want in a deep recession is wage inflation!. Normally that would never happen as basic market forces would work against it, but when you have govt intervention that changes everything.
It is just reckless ideology form the govt to have continued with the min wage increase. Demand wont come back because you increase min wage, as it suppresses one side of the equation. The equation being more people spending more..... you are going to instead have a lot less spending a small amount more (and even that is debatable).There are going to be massive cuts to how much money those on min wage earn as a group, lets make up some numbers, a) 1 million people earning $19 per hour for a 40 hour week, compared to
b)1.4 ,million people making $18 per hour for 40 hour week,a)$760,000,000
b)$1,080,000,000Which amount will be able to spend more? It aint the group making $19
And I am facing this on a very real level, I am about to lay off a couple of guys, if I am being honest 1 of them is directly related to keeping wage costs down that were just inflated by the govt. I know this guy will be straight on the dole, and likely will be for quite some time, he is a direct casualty of the govt ideology over pragmatism. The other guy is more a victim of the wuflu making his job not required.
The min wage hike just helps a select group who will keep their min wage jobs, it doesn't help skilled workers who deserve a % higher than min wage, it doesnt help the unlucky min wage workers who get layed off, and it doesn't help those desperately looking for a job.The NZ economy is rooted, and a lot of that will because the people in charge currently have no clue how business operates, and no true empathy for the poor.
if they actually cared at all beyond ideology they would have just changed working for families around, I wouldnt have liked that either, but it would have given the working poor a boost, increased incomes and not savaged business that is already in for a terrible time.The Labour govt is going to crate a massive underclass of non working.
-
@taniwharugby Those 2 critical in ICU are a worry. I hope they make it.
The numbers are still consistent with expectations. Bloomfield said on Friday that they still expect the numbers to rise for several days. I hope we can see a real change on Wednesday.
Also noteworthy is that the number of new confirmed cases has gone down considerably and the number of new probable cases is now almost half of the new cases. Some of those probable cases could still become negative.
-
@Stargazer said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Can we have a separate Cornona - politics thread from this one, so those of us who prefer to block politics threads don't have to read that stuff here?
It isnt politic, it is economics and as time goes on the economic impact is as big if not bigger than a medical impact. Thisisnt a medical thread, it is a coronavirus thread.
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback It's economic politics. You can't separate the two, unless you just provide facts without offering your politically coloured opinion on those facts.
-
American site and contributors, but an interesting read in the tradeoffs between economy and health, and basically points out that it's hard to trade off health for economy because the economy depends on health.
-
@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
American site and contributors, but an interesting read in the tradeoffs between economy and health, and basically points out that it's hard to trade off health for economy because the economy depends on health.
And vice versa. There is also a health cost to an economic crash, eg increase in suicides, mental health, access to health care, diet, etc
-
@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
American site and contributors, but an interesting read in the tradeoffs between economy and health, and basically points out that it's hard to trade off health for economy because the economy depends on health.
You aren't portraying the article fairly with that summation. It does a good job of arguing from both angles. A recession and pain was always going to happen, but it is govts job to limit it and smooth it amongst citizens. The NZ govt is doing a terrible job of that IMO. The current economic winners are govt workers and the cashed up. Losers are, or will be, nearly everyone else. I think the wage subsidy was very good and well handled. But I think university public health professors scared the govt into a complete lockdown way to fast. And raising benefits and the min wage was crazy. Well benefits increase was more sneaky than crazy. As that won't cost jobs and businesses. It was just politics.
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
American site and contributors, but an interesting read in the tradeoffs between economy and health, and basically points out that it's hard to trade off health for economy because the economy depends on health.
You aren't portraying the article fairly with that summation. It does a good job of arguing from both angles. A recession and pain was always going to happen, but it is govts job to limit it and smooth it amongst citizens. The NZ govt is doing a terrible job of that IMO. The current economic winners are govt workers and the cashed up. Losers are, or will be, nearly everyone else. I think the wage subsidy was very good and well handled. But I think university public health professors scared the govt into a complete lockdown way to fast. And raising benefits and the min wage was crazy. Well benefits increase was more sneaky than crazy. As that won't cost jobs and businesses. It was just politics.
Aren't there Government workers who could be put on furlough?
Coronavirus - New Zealand