Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@voodoo "It's not hyperbolic to say we have only hours to prevent the inevitable horrors we see in countries that waited too long.
Actually it is hyperbolic
As Kirwan said the government has a difficult (probably impossible) balancing act to try and pull off.
Impossible because not only do they have economic and health issues to deal with but also panic merchants and blasé naysayers.
The people deciding policy at the moment seem to be doing a reasonably good job of trying to do exactly this. I'm pretty sure we will lose control in NZ at some stage because the population won't accept the sort of measures enacted in East Asia (yet) but by and large the government have kept the general population on board.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo "It's not hyperbolic to say we have only hours to prevent the inevitable horrors we see in countries that waited too long.
Actually it is hyperbolic
As Kirwan said the government has a difficult (probably impossible) balancing act to try and pull off.
Impossible because not only do they have economic and health issues to deal with but also panic merchants and blasé naysayers.
The people deciding policy at the moment seem to be doing a reasonably good job of trying to do exactly this. I'm pretty sure we will lose control in NZ at some stage because the population won't accept the sort of measures enacted in East Asia (yet) but by and large the government have kept the general population on board.
The MoH and the NZ Dental Council has strongly recommended that all dental practices in NZ stop routine procedures and anything which creates aerosols. Which is basically everything. This has happened because despite the government asking people to be responsible at our borders and within, to practice self isolation and distancing, we have failed to do so. No one knows how long we will be out but it could be a while. All non essential medical surgeries are being shelved for the foreseeable future. Businesses and schools will soon close. Doctors on the front line are calling for an immediate lockdown. I say it's time to do the hard thing and shut it down. The longer we wait will prolong the pain. People need to be saved from themselves and realise this shit is real
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I was thinking about Dental yesterday. Not surprised by that recommendation based on my experiences with plaque removal
Some Doctors on the front line are calling for an immediate lockdown. Just as many are furious at the petition.
I'm not sure a GP has that much more bonafides than the average joe TBH. Yes they will be far more involved but how current and deep is their understanding of the epidemiology of coronavirus.
Doctors can be spooked just as much as the next toilet roll hoarder
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@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Social media and mainstream media this morning seems to be a contest of who can shout "shut everything down yesterday" the loudest.
I will assume they will also insist that all teachers stay on full pay for the duration and therefore feel no financial pain at all?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Social media and mainstream media this morning seems to be a contest of who can shout "shut everything down yesterday" the loudest.
I will assume they will also insist that all teachers stay on full pay for the duration and therefore feel no financial pain at all?
That was the government measure in the economic package, so presumably. I'd suggest just moving the holidays if closing now, and sorting out online lessons in the time off, and then teaching that way until this blows over.
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Social media and mainstream media this morning seems to be a contest of who can shout "shut everything down yesterday" the loudest.
I will assume they will also insist that all teachers stay on full pay for the duration and therefore feel no financial pain at all?
That was the government measure in the economic package, so presumably. I'd suggest just moving the holidays if closing now, and sorting out online lessons in the time off, and then teaching that way until this blows over.
Cool so the teachers get full pay whilst demanding others (mainly low earners) are financially decimated ASAP. Typical middle class piston wristed gibbons.
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looks like plenty of parents have already taken kids out of school with less kids floating around this morning, roads were like school holidays.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback while on one hand you need money to keep flowing around, I get where you are coming from...I know a couple who are both teachers, so for them, it'll be like extended school holidays.
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Would like to hear from an expert where we cross the line from preventing deaths from the virus, to causing deaths from economic collapse.
I sincerely hope that’s part of the advice the Government is getting because I’m starting to get super worried about “after”.
Lockdown is necessary, but it has to be a lockdown with a plan.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
The MoH and the NZ Dental Council has strongly recommended that all dental practices in NZ stop routine procedures and anything which creates aerosols
My mate who is a dentist here in Oz has lost all three of his jobs. He worked at two practices and taught at the dental school. He does the clinic stuff at the school so he's been let go from there whereas most of the others do a mix of lectures and clinic so will still be teaching online.
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True-love got completely cleaned up by one of our horses yesterday, to the point that I thought she had broken her Femur. She refused to go to A&E despite the horrific pain.
That pain, apparently, is less than the pain today where I told her I was working from home for the foreseeable future.
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2 of the ladies form work went to grab coffee from the little shop down the road, they havd to sign in, provide contact details and declare they had been in NZ last 14+ days and to best of knowledge not been in contact with anyone who might be infected.
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@Kirwan yep, I've been pretty worried about this over the last couple of weeks.
My own job is fairly secure for the short and medium term but a lot of my friends and family aren't lucky enough to be in that position.
The potential economic ramifications from this could (if not already) be catastrophic. I would hate to have to be the one to make the decision but when do we make the call to reopen.
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I've just returned from my plasma donation and despite the room being less full than usual when I arrived the centre was full by the time I left. Good to see after all the stories of donors cancelling amidst the panic. It's times like this that blood donors will be needed more than ever.
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@Toddy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan yep, I've been pretty worried about this over the last couple of weeks.
My own job is fairly secure for the short and medium term but a lot of my friends and family aren't lucky enough to be in that position.
The potential economic ramifications from this could (if not already) be catastrophic. I would hate to have to be the one to make the decision but when do we make the call to reopen.
I guess when we can bulk test and do localised lockdowns?
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@Toddy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan yep, I've been pretty worried about this over the last couple of weeks.
My own job is fairly secure for the short and medium term but a lot of my friends and family aren't lucky enough to be in that position.
The potential economic ramifications from this could (if not already) be catastrophic. I would hate to have to be the one to make the decision but when do we make the call to reopen.
The problem is so multi faceted, there is the short term pain by those living on the breadline already and will be pushed into real poverty.
Then you have business that will just fail leading to more people being pushed into poverty.
You have the people who can survive the crisis but will be destroyed by a long recessions such as builders, car sales, luxury goods providers etc
This pain wont end when the lock down ends, it will be years and years and so many suicides and so much violence.
I am already annoyed with public servants (teachers, uni professors etc) leading the charge for a shutdown when they have ZERO economic skin in the game short or long term.A part of me thinks it would be less costly in lives and money to just let it run its course. But then I think of my mum and dad......
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback why would you think it wouldn't be school holidays announced early with online learning planned until further notice? Ministry of Education is looking for 76000 laptops for exactly that.
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback why would you think it wouldn't be school holidays announced early with online learning planned until further notice? Ministry of Education is looking for 76000 laptops for exactly that.
Oh I am sure that will be the intial plan, but once we go into lockdown there is no way it will be only for a couple of weeks. IMO
The analogy with cricket rain delays someone made a few days back is one I agree with. Once we go off, we wont be back on for ages.And as for home learning? That is such a middle class solution. My wife can do it, she doesnt work, we have laptops, internet and the right knowledge, alot of people have none of those. And that doesnt touch on who exactly is supposed to look after these kids, a parent is supposed to such stop working for weeks on end so thew kids can study online?
I get that it may be necessary, but I find the stuff being spouted by teachers and other govt employees increasingly disconnected from real NZ.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback My kid's devices are being updated for home learning today, so they have some sort of plan in place.
They have a pretty good system for online homework too, so they are pretty much set for the families with good internet and lucky enough to have those devices. Hopefully the laptops mentioned above are for those without.