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@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
My understanding is the vast majority of people needing hospitalisation are already in the 'at risk' category.
If they are taking the necessary precautions to avoid catching the virus, how are they catching it?
A 41 year old US congressman made the news yesterday as the highest ranking politician to date to have been claimed by covid19. Not the first younger person to die, just notable enough to make the news
Still a very small percentage of a very small percentage of the population.
Cold comfort if you are that small percentage
True, but you don’t plan a national strategy in order to prevent a few deaths, you do it to prevent 100k+ deaths and the swamping of your infrastructure. BTW I’m aware that is likely not the point you were trying to make but I just find the constant holding up of individual cases as a rationale of what we’re doing wrong or right to be irrelevant.
Its going to fuck your infrastructure anyway. Something many people don't grasp
Do you mean infrastructure or economy? If the former I don’t agree, it’s under a lot of pressure true. If you meant economy I think it’s fair to say there are going to be some sizeable changes. Fucked though? Not so sure. Some big losers but there will also be some big winners too. We’ll know in the longer run I guess.
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
My understanding is the vast majority of people needing hospitalisation are already in the 'at risk' category.
If they are taking the necessary precautions to avoid catching the virus, how are they catching it?
A 41 year old US congressman made the news yesterday as the highest ranking politician to date to have been claimed by covid19. Not the first younger person to die, just notable enough to make the news
Still a very small percentage of a very small percentage of the population.
Cold comfort if you are that small percentage
True, but you don’t plan a national strategy in order to prevent a few deaths, you do it to prevent 100k+ deaths and the swamping of your infrastructure. BTW I’m aware that is likely not the point you were trying to make but I just find the constant holding up of individual cases as a rationale of what we’re doing wrong or right to be irrelevant.
Its going to fuck your infrastructure anyway. Something many people don't grasp
Do you mean infrastructure or economy? If the former I don’t agree, it’s under a lot of pressure true. If you meant economy I think it’s fair to say there are going to be some sizeable changes. Fucked though? Not so sure. Some big losers but there will also be some big winners too. We’ll know in the longer run I guess.
Economy. But no one wins with repeated and prolonged lockdowns
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
My understanding is the vast majority of people needing hospitalisation are already in the 'at risk' category.
If they are taking the necessary precautions to avoid catching the virus, how are they catching it?
A 41 year old US congressman made the news yesterday as the highest ranking politician to date to have been claimed by covid19. Not the first younger person to die, just notable enough to make the news
Still a very small percentage of a very small percentage of the population.
Cold comfort if you are that small percentage
True, but you don’t plan a national strategy in order to prevent a few deaths, you do it to prevent 100k+ deaths and the swamping of your infrastructure. BTW I’m aware that is likely not the point you were trying to make but I just find the constant holding up of individual cases as a rationale of what we’re doing wrong or right to be irrelevant.
Its going to fuck your infrastructure anyway. Something many people don't grasp
Do you mean infrastructure or economy? If the former I don’t agree, it’s under a lot of pressure true. If you meant economy I think it’s fair to say there are going to be some sizeable changes. Fucked though? Not so sure. Some big losers but there will also be some big winners too. We’ll know in the longer run I guess.
Economy. But no one wins with repeated and prolonged lockdowns
Tell that to Amazon! But I broadly agree with you. Not sure what the alternative is for the UK though.
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This post is deleted!
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It seems hyperbole, exaggeration and emotional language overtook facts, intelligent opinion and professional judgement quite some time ago in the UK.
E.g, GPs leaders reactions to government plans to give as many people protection from their first vaccine jab as soon as possible to combat the spike from the new COVID variant by delaying the second jab . They may think it "outrageous and grossly unfair" for GP surgeries to ring patients to cancel their second jabs, but it really isn't. In the big picture, its just a minor inconvenience.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
My understanding is the vast majority of people needing hospitalisation are already in the 'at risk' category.
If they are taking the necessary precautions to avoid catching the virus, how are they catching it?
A 41 year old US congressman made the news yesterday as the highest ranking politician to date to have been claimed by covid19. Not the first younger person to die, just notable enough to make the news
Still a very small percentage of a very small percentage of the population.
Cold comfort if you are that small percentage
True, but you don’t plan a national strategy in order to prevent a few deaths, you do it to prevent 100k+ deaths and the swamping of your infrastructure. BTW I’m aware that is likely not the point you were trying to make but I just find the constant holding up of individual cases as a rationale of what we’re doing wrong or right to be irrelevant.
Its going to fuck your infrastructure anyway. Something many people don't grasp. People might scoff at NZs team of 5 million. But it worked
The UK Government chose to keep our island open to all comers.
Hence the different outcome from that of NZ.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
It seems hyperbole, exaggeration and emotional language overtook facts, intelligent opinion and professional judgement quite some time ago in the UK.
E.g, GPs leaders reactions to government plans to give as many people protection from their first vaccine jab as soon as possible to combat the spike from the new COVID variant by delaying the second jab . They may think it "outrageous and grossly unfair" for GP surgeries to ring patients to cancel their second jabs, but it really isn't. In the big picture, its just a minor inconvenience.
Hopefully once a critical mass of vaccination has taken place we can be ‘let out’.
If administering one dose initially gets us to that point quicker then I’m all for it.
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
It seems hyperbole, exaggeration and emotional language overtook facts, intelligent opinion and professional judgement quite some time ago in the UK.
E.g, GPs leaders reactions to government plans to give as many people protection from their first vaccine jab as soon as possible to combat the spike from the new COVID variant by delaying the second jab . They may think it "outrageous and grossly unfair" for GP surgeries to ring patients to cancel their second jabs, but it really isn't. In the big picture, its just a minor inconvenience.
Hopefully once a critical mass of vaccination has taken place we can be ‘let out’.
If administering one dose initially gets us to that point quicker then I’m all for it.
I heard it reported that the second jab is primarily to provide longer term protection with the first jab providing a much higher level of protection just not with the same long term outcome. Getting more people jabbed initially seems sensible to me if that is the case.
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
It seems hyperbole, exaggeration and emotional language overtook facts, intelligent opinion and professional judgement quite some time ago in the UK.
E.g, GPs leaders reactions to government plans to give as many people protection from their first vaccine jab as soon as possible to combat the spike from the new COVID variant by delaying the second jab . They may think it "outrageous and grossly unfair" for GP surgeries to ring patients to cancel their second jabs, but it really isn't. In the big picture, its just a minor inconvenience.
Hopefully once a critical mass of vaccination has taken place we can be ‘let out’.
If administering one dose initially gets us to that point quicker then I’m all for it.
Professor Whitty told doctors: “For every 1,000 people boosted with a second dose of Covid-19 vaccine in January, 1,000 new people can’t have substantial initial protection, which is in most cases likely to raise them from 0 per cent protected to at least 70 per cent protected.” He said that “these unvaccinated people are far more likely to end up severely ill, hospitalised and in some cases dying without a vaccine”.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/gps-rebel-over-order-to-delay-second-jabs-xsg6qxzcp
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
My understanding is the vast majority of people needing hospitalisation are already in the 'at risk' category.
If they are taking the necessary precautions to avoid catching the virus, how are they catching it?
A 41 year old US congressman made the news yesterday as the highest ranking politician to date to have been claimed by covid19. Not the first younger person to die, just notable enough to make the news
Still a very small percentage of a very small percentage of the population.
Cold comfort if you are that small percentage
True, but you don’t plan a national strategy in order to prevent a few deaths, you do it to prevent 100k+ deaths and the swamping of your infrastructure. BTW I’m aware that is likely not the point you were trying to make but I just find the constant holding up of individual cases as a rationale of what we’re doing wrong or right to be irrelevant.
Its going to fuck your infrastructure anyway. Something many people don't grasp. People might scoff at NZs team of 5 million. But it worked
It absolutely did. And it should be lauded.
Logistically it wasn’t possible here. But facts and truth are long long gone from UK coverage.
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
My understanding is the vast majority of people needing hospitalisation are already in the 'at risk' category.
If they are taking the necessary precautions to avoid catching the virus, how are they catching it?
A 41 year old US congressman made the news yesterday as the highest ranking politician to date to have been claimed by covid19. Not the first younger person to die, just notable enough to make the news
Still a very small percentage of a very small percentage of the population.
Cold comfort if you are that small percentage
True, but you don’t plan a national strategy in order to prevent a few deaths, you do it to prevent 100k+ deaths and the swamping of your infrastructure. BTW I’m aware that is likely not the point you were trying to make but I just find the constant holding up of individual cases as a rationale of what we’re doing wrong or right to be irrelevant.
Its going to fuck your infrastructure anyway. Something many people don't grasp. People might scoff at NZs team of 5 million. But it worked
The UK Government chose to keep our island open to all comers.
Hence the different outcome from that of NZ.
Sorry, Powman, but that is facile. The virus was already widespread in Western Europe and UK before the authorities became aware of the seriousness. At that point the 'NZ approach' would not have worked.
And NZ's geographical isolation meant that the logistics of siloing commercially were feasible in a way which was not the case here.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
My understanding is the vast majority of people needing hospitalisation are already in the 'at risk' category.
If they are taking the necessary precautions to avoid catching the virus, how are they catching it?
A 41 year old US congressman made the news yesterday as the highest ranking politician to date to have been claimed by covid19. Not the first younger person to die, just notable enough to make the news
Still a very small percentage of a very small percentage of the population.
Cold comfort if you are that small percentage
True, but you don’t plan a national strategy in order to prevent a few deaths, you do it to prevent 100k+ deaths and the swamping of your infrastructure. BTW I’m aware that is likely not the point you were trying to make but I just find the constant holding up of individual cases as a rationale of what we’re doing wrong or right to be irrelevant.
Its going to fuck your infrastructure anyway. Something many people don't grasp
Do you mean infrastructure or economy? If the former I don’t agree, it’s under a lot of pressure true. If you meant economy I think it’s fair to say there are going to be some sizeable changes. Fucked though? Not so sure. Some big losers but there will also be some big winners too. We’ll know in the longer run I guess.
Economy. But no one wins with repeated and prolonged lockdowns
Agreed. But it's not just a national decision. Even if UK had chosen not to lockdown, the decision of in effect all of Western Europe to do so ensured that the economy would be hammered.
NZ has the advantage of being able to operate as almost a closed system economically. For so long as China keeps buying, at least.
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
Here he is. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55479018
“The people we are getting are, like the first wave, my age really. I am 58 and I would say half the patients are younger than me. It is middle-aged people or a little bit older that we are getting."
But are they already compromised before contracting COVID-19?
Because if they are, and it’s self-inflicted, then the pigeons are coming home to roost.
It’s a harsh statement but no harsher than the Doc in the article.
He’s calling ‘us’ murderers.
I’ll counter with those affected have been committing suicide for years.
Not sure it's a counter, but there is much truth in what you say. Less than 500 healthy under 60s persons have succumbed to Covid in England.
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@Siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
Here he is. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55479018
Interesting article that raised a few points for me:
Why does a highly qualified health professional use emotional language one usually expects from a news reader? "Blood on your hands" in this instance is literally and professionally untrue. Way too much sensationalism.Never any numbers or percentages or data. Simply sweeping statements: "We are in a lot of trouble in UK intensive care now.
"Just huge numbers coming in, my heart goes out as well to our emergency departments, seeing a tsunami in the last week or two of cases. Everyone is working at maximum stretch."
Where? In your hospital or every hospital? How many is a "tsunami" and is that an actual technical name of a metric used by hospitals when describing hospital capacities?
The irony of an official in favour of lockdown stating: "They won't know they have killed people but they have."
And finally, the best example of a non precise and sensationalist piece of deceitful fear mongering:
"I am watching whole families getting wiped out here, and it's got to stop."
I call Bullshit. We're bickering over a 41 year old congressman as the only public example of a youngish person dying and this professor is stating that numerous families are dying in front of him!
What mum dad the kids and grandparents getting "wiped out"? Dying in your hospital often? Bollocks and shame on you for talking to us like we're teenagers voting on a reality show.COVID is not the problem, assessing credibility and information driving these strategies is very sub standard and flighty.
They spread fear far more readily than data.
So, do essential workers like truckdrivers or supermarket workers, inadvertently getting the virus have blood on their hands too? No? Oh just the ones violating lock down rules huh? Clever virus
@Siam I have quite a lot of sympathy for your view.
My take is that these were the words of an overworked professional who was getting a bit desperate.
The words about entire families being taken out were plainly piffle.
BUT my daughter is a young doctor in Winchester and her hospital, one of the few in South East not to be busy, is now having to take serious overflow from London where the seasonal peak is much worse this year.
What I personally DO agree with is that lockdowns don't per se do much to stop the spread, in so much as if those who are likely to come into contact with vulnerable people (probably a majority of the population) kept social distancing, wore a mask indoors when around others, and didn't visit non-family households the virus would come under control quickly without the need for lockdowns.
A lot of the London surge is down to the boneheads who crammed into shops and streets to buy Christmas shopping!
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
"Blood on your hands" in this instance is literally and professionally untrue.
It is a figurative term, not literal.
"used to say that someone is responsible for someone else's death"
As for the language I think that they are just trying to get the point across to the idiots that are ignoring the message?
Which idiots?
The ones sending their kids to school?
The ones who e.g. crammed cheek to jowl to shop at TopMan, etc. in Oxford Circus at the start of December.
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
My understanding is the vast majority of people needing hospitalisation are already in the 'at risk' category.
If they are taking the necessary precautions to avoid catching the virus, how are they catching it?
A 41 year old US congressman made the news yesterday as the highest ranking politician to date to have been claimed by covid19. Not the first younger person to die, just notable enough to make the news
Still a very small percentage of a very small percentage of the population.
Cold comfort if you are that small percentage
True, but you don’t plan a national strategy in order to prevent a few deaths, you do it to prevent 100k+ deaths and the swamping of your infrastructure. BTW I’m aware that is likely not the point you were trying to make but I just find the constant holding up of individual cases as a rationale of what we’re doing wrong or right to be irrelevant.
Its going to fuck your infrastructure anyway. Something many people don't grasp
Do you mean infrastructure or economy? If the former I don’t agree, it’s under a lot of pressure true. If you meant economy I think it’s fair to say there are going to be some sizeable changes. Fucked though? Not so sure. Some big losers but there will also be some big winners too. We’ll know in the longer run I guess.
Economy. But no one wins with repeated and prolonged lockdowns
Tell that to Amazon! But I broadly agree with you. Not sure what the alternative is for the UK though.
Pretty hard not to follow what France/Italy/Spain/Germany do in practice.
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
It seems hyperbole, exaggeration and emotional language overtook facts, intelligent opinion and professional judgement quite some time ago in the UK.
E.g, GPs leaders reactions to government plans to give as many people protection from their first vaccine jab as soon as possible to combat the spike from the new COVID variant by delaying the second jab . They may think it "outrageous and grossly unfair" for GP surgeries to ring patients to cancel their second jabs, but it really isn't. In the big picture, its just a minor inconvenience.
Hopefully once a critical mass of vaccination has taken place we can be ‘let out’.
If administering one dose initially gets us to that point quicker then I’m all for it.
I heard it reported that the second jab is primarily to provide longer term protection with the first jab providing a much higher level of protection just not with the same long term outcome. Getting more people jabbed initially seems sensible to me if that is the case.
Spot on.
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
@scribe said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@R-L said in Coronavirus - UK:
"all in this together"
Seemingly not. Had an email from the UK bemoaning lockdown and all the constraints but have to do what's necessary to curb the outbreak etc. Message ended with "we'll probably break it on New Years Eve but we'll only have a few people over".....
Not a winning attitude. When will people stop railing against these lockdowns and realise the best way out of them as soon as possible is to do what they need to and follow the rules?
Here in the UK I’m finding it hard to deal with the fact that I have normally sane , rational old friends that have blatantly and consistently, broken the COVID rules over the year. Makes me question my relationship with them. Despite everything going on (I live in the Sth East with some of the highest infection rates in the country), they're hosting a party (albeit small and I’m not attending!) tonight. So hypocritical when a couple of them have v strong socialist views that they’re not afraid to voice.
It’s just fucking weak and so selfish. I wish they’d take some personal responsibility; it’s not like the rest of us don’t want to socialise and have more freedom. I read a BBC report today from an intensive care Dr who said people like my friends, ‘have blood on their hands’ as intensive care units will be totally fucked within 2 weeks, not because of the new virulent strains but because the basic rules are not being adhered to.
Here he is. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55479018
“The people we are getting are, like the first wave, my age really. I am 58 and I would say half the patients are younger than me. It is middle-aged people or a little bit older that we are getting."
But are they already compromised before contracting COVID-19?
Because if they are, and it’s self-inflicted, then the pigeons are coming home to roost.
It’s a harsh statement but no harsher than the Doc in the article.
He’s calling ‘us’ murderers.
I’ll counter with those affected have been committing suicide for years.
Not sure it's a counter, but there is much truth in what you say. Less than 500 healthy under 60s persons have succumbed to Covid in England.
That's fucking crazy.
Less than 1% of the deaths from people with no existing co-morbidities or age against them.
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
"Blood on your hands" in this instance is literally and professionally untrue.
It is a figurative term, not literal.
"used to say that someone is responsible for someone else's death"
As for the language I think that they are just trying to get the point across to the idiots that are ignoring the message?
Which idiots?
The ones sending their kids to school?
The ones who e.g. crammed cheek to jowl to shop at TopMan, etc. in Oxford Circus at the start of December.
Thank you. Saved me the effort.
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Sadly common sense seems to have escaped many people due to thier selfishness these days
Coronavirus - UK