Cannabis debate
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@Kirwan said in Cannabis debate:
@chimoaus said in Cannabis debate:
@nzzp Yeah fair call, how do you make an informed educated decision, or do you simply have to wait for public opinion to change as it likely will?
I voted yes, but if the majority aren’t ready for legalisation that’s fine.
Personally, I don’t think this should be a referendum at all. We elect politicians to make decisions, even unpopular ones. We did it with prostitution and that turned out well.
good call fella. I was a 'yes' voter, but not at all pro cannabis. It's just less harm.
... and now I agree with the Greens on something. Love 2020 eh
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On anything apart from National Sovereignty issues and voting reform, I tend to think Referendums are an expensive waste of time.
In Representative Democracies, politicians should be prepared to make tough, not always popular, decisions and then be accountable to the electorate for them.
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@sparky said in Cannabis debate:
In Representative Democracies, politicians should be prepared to make tough, not always popular, decisions and then be accountable to the electorate for them.
I agree in principle, but that's not how it works in reality. Voters punish you. FFS, he prime minister wouldn't tell us the way she voted until afterwards. Leadership? Hmmmm. Reasonable and rational response- absolutely.
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I personally feel there wasnt enough information put out there for the regulation side of things, drug driving etc.
People shouldnt have to go looking for the information, because they wont.
Saw an interview on TV earlier and a dude was saying that it will likely come out it was the over 60s that voted no, yet they are the demographic of people whose use increased in countries where they decriminalised it
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@Kirwan said in Cannabis debate:
@chimoaus said in Cannabis debate:
@nzzp Yeah fair call, how do you make an informed educated decision, or do you simply have to wait for public opinion to change as it likely will?
I voted yes, but if the majority aren’t ready for legalisation that’s fine.
Personally, I don’t think this should be a referendum at all. We elect politicians to make decisions, even unpopular ones. We did it with prostitution and that turned out well.
Absolutely this! I made the same point to some mates today. As if the Gov would ask the public opinion on a change to alcohol regulation. This isn't a moral argument. Just do your job.
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@voodoo yeah I think sometimes they need to make the decisions, they are elected to do what is in the best interest of the country, they will have access to all the science, all sorts of other data that Joe public doesnt, they will debate it to a much higher level than Johnny up the road.
Did they do a referendum when they reduced the drinking age to 18 or when they increased the licence age to 16?
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I want to grow hemp. Such an amazing plant - can make textiles, rope, food, biofuel, and so much more. It probably comes with a set of steak knives. It is good for the soil, can grow in, and break up clay, grows incedibly quickly and will get rid of kikuyu. Actually weeds won't grow with it.
It has basically no THC but because it is related to cannabis it is difficult to get seed or plants. They also have to be tested for THC levels. It is very frustrating.
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As the old line goes, if you're explaining, you're losing. The argument in favour of the No vote was an easy moral argument of Cannabis bad, vote No. The argument in favour of the Yes vote was nuanced because it wasn't as easy as Cannabis good, vote Yes, which meant explaining, which meant losing.
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I voted yes because I think if we can sort out laws and regulations, safe consumption, safe driving, appropriate sale and purchase etc etc for alcohol, punish those who go overboard or cause harm, while letting people who like a wee tipple in the privacy of their home have at it, then we can do the same for cannabis.
The morality police doom and gloomers piss me off, because they are the same bloody people who squawked that the sky would fall if we had legal prostitution or gay marriage. It never fucking falls. We just end up having better protections for a vulnerable group, and nobody else's life changes one bit.
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@Mokey said in Cannabis debate:
legal prostitution or gay marriage
We didn't have referenda on those did we?
The people that we trusted with our vote made the decision on those I think, and they voted accordingly in the house of power? Perhaps they should have this time too but the people have spoken.
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It's a massive change for a lot of people. People are conservative and don't change in-grained "moralities" easily. As you say @Mokey we've been brought up to believe drugs = bad. It's illegal and used by bad people.
I couldn't and thus didn't vote but would have voted for reform. Which when I reflect is amazing coming from super conservative me. Don't partake myself, and no intention to (one intoxicating substance is enough for me).
I personally think in a few years (as others have said) the sentiment will change as older people who are indoctrinated by observance of "the law" shuffle off this mortal coil.
So when (not if) the change comes it will not be that controversial.
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@chimoaus said in Cannabis debate:
@booboo I can only think NZ is missing a trick long term post covid re tourism and the economic possibilities of being on the front foot of this new market. I dare say a lot of Aussies would have booked a pot smoking holiday.
Great. More wasted Aussie snowboarders is what we need.
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@Godder said in Cannabis debate:
The argument in favour of the Yes vote was nuanced because it wasn't as easy as Cannabis good, vote Yes, which meant explaining, which meant losing.
and that for me was part of the problem, there was alot of information that needed to be circulated for people to understand it properly and make a truly informed decision, and IMO this wasnt done very well anyway.
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I’m happy that it’s still a no, as I think it is better for us to watch and wait to see the research from the states find out what happens to less-advantages ppl and those on welfare etc. when it is legalized. From what I’ve read there are some effects that are not necessarily expected, so Getting others to help identify them is a good idea. I expect it to happen at some stage as part of a party’s policies anyway.
We might also get a better idea about regulations etc. because even though we might hope we could be like the Europeans with booze and drugs, we simply aren’t. Research from those contexts has far less transferability than the states.
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@gt12 said in Cannabis debate:
We might also get a better idea about regulations etc. because even though we might hope we could be like the Europeans with booze and drugs, we simply aren’t. Research from those contexts has far less transferability than the states.
In your opinion what makes the States a better fit than Europe for determining likely outcomes?
I would think the NZ is much closer to some European nations in terms of social or political issues, though I've only ever lived here.
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@gt12 said in Cannabis debate:
I’m happy that it’s still a no, as I think it is better for us to watch and wait to see the research from the states find out what happens to less-advantages ppl and those on welfare etc. when it is legalized. From what I’ve read there are some effects that are not necessarily expected, so Getting others to help identify them is a good idea. I expect it to happen at some stage as part of a party’s policies anyway.
We might also get a better idea about regulations etc. because even though we might hope we could be like the Europeans with booze and drugs, we simply aren’t. Research from those contexts has far less transferability than the states.
People already smoke pot, and it is so easy to obtain its silly. Currently gangs control the supply of the drug and they make the profits with no regulation or concern for the end user. The Govt can regulate it, tax it, ensure its quality and educate and help those who are dependent. I honestly struggle to understand any reasonable person who would rather gangs control it over the Govt. If we had a referendum on handing over liquor supply to gangs people would think it was crazy, yet that is exactly what is happening with pot.
What are these "effects" people are worried about? they cannot be worse than the current system surely?
Govts can always modify the laws later, the drinking age was changed, certain rules around spirits, happy hours, plastic cups etc to reduce violence. NZ should be at the leading edge of this and just waiting makes no sense to me.
My mother was a no voter and her reason, I don't want everybody walking around like zombies. She seriously thinks if pot is legal every single person will just drop tools and sit at home smoking pot. I asked her if she sits at home drinking alcohol all day, and she said of course not....