Cannabis debate
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@chimoaus said in Cannabis debate:
And one last thought, when I was a teenager, we sourced pot from a local gang or suburban drug dealer etc. We got our alcohol from a store or a parent.
If your kids are going to use pot, which method would you prefer?
One of the arguments for 'yes' is legit pot stores can't 'upsell'. Here fella, you like your dope, try this...
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The gangs will still supply pot and they will do it cheaper because they won't have all sorts of regulations to adhere to.
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@taniwharugby I think they make plenty from all the other illegal drugs and I hear Meth is their top selling product.
Whenever something is prohibited gangs will find a way to get involved. They appear to be fairly resourceful so I wouldn't worry to much about them. 😉👍 -
@Crazy-Horse If people have the option I dare say the majority would rather avoid visiting the mongrel mob. Where would you buy it if it was legal, a regulated store or a gang?
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@chimoaus said in Cannabis debate:
@Crazy-Horse If people have the option I dare say the majority would rather avoid visiting the mongrel mob.
That's the theory but the govt would need to be careful not to over regulate things to the point where it is counter productive. Not sure I trust the govt not to do this. I recall reading something from a Canadian dude who suggested NZ look at the Canadian model and try not to make the same mistakes. Apparently things are heavily regulated there. Can't remember his qualifications, but I am pretty sure he wasn't just a random guy at the pub.
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@voodoo said in Cannabis debate:
You can also buy imported cheap cigarettes or distill your own alcohol - most people choose to buy the regulated stuff and pay the tax. Why would pot be any different?
Hopefully it won't be different but distilled alcohol tastes like crap and wouldn't it be harder to illegally import cigarettes than grow Cannabis?
I am all for the legalisation by the way. I'd love to go to a 'coffee shop' and let the world drift past as I watch (was that even a possibility under the proposal?)
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@Crazy-Horse said in Cannabis debate:
@voodoo said in Cannabis debate:
You can also buy imported cheap cigarettes or distill your own alcohol - most people choose to buy the regulated stuff and pay the tax. Why would pot be any different?
Hopefully it won't be different but distilled alcohol tastes like crap and wouldn't it be harder to illegally import cigarettes than grow Cannabis?
I am all for the legalisation by the way. I'd love to go to a 'coffee shop' and let the world drift past as I watch (was that even a possibility under the proposal?)
Using an edible maybe, still can't puff!
I know my example wasn't a very good one, just making the point that there are always cheap knock off versions of stuff about. I just reckon that provided the tax /regs burden isn't crazy, most people would pay the extra for a controlled product.
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@chimoaus said in Cannabis debate:
@gt12 said in Cannabis debate:
I’m happy that it’s still a no, as I think it is better for us to watch and wait to see the research from the states find out what happens to less-advantages ppl and those on welfare etc. when it is legalized. From what I’ve read there are some effects that are not necessarily expected, so Getting others to help identify them is a good idea. I expect it to happen at some stage as part of a party’s policies anyway.
We might also get a better idea about regulations etc. because even though we might hope we could be like the Europeans with booze and drugs, we simply aren’t. Research from those contexts has far less transferability than the states.
People already smoke pot, and it is so easy to obtain its silly. Currently gangs control the supply of the drug and they make the profits with no regulation or concern for the end user. The Govt can regulate it, tax it, ensure its quality and educate and help those who are dependent. I honestly struggle to understand any reasonable person who would rather gangs control it over the Govt. If we had a referendum on handing over liquor supply to gangs people would think it was crazy, yet that is exactly what is happening with pot.
What are these "effects" people are worried about? they cannot be worse than the current system surely?
Govts can always modify the laws later, the drinking age was changed, certain rules around spirits, happy hours, plastic cups etc to reduce violence. NZ should be at the leading edge of this and just waiting makes no sense to me.
My mother was a no voter and her reason, I don't want everybody walking around like zombies. She seriously thinks if pot is legal every single person will just drop tools and sit at home smoking pot. I asked her if she sits at home drinking alcohol all day, and she said of course not....
A good friend of mine recently edited a book about it, which I think I’ve linked to above, so forgive me if I don’t go over the reasons again, but the way that Marijuana gets strengthened, is sold in other forms, young children get exposed more often, pets get poisoned, hospitalizations increase, and influences on road fatalities and road policing etc would be a few examples of factors I’d like better information about. There is also the extent to which it being legal could end up in seriously strange consequences such as potentially influencing tourism in a negative manner. I do think it will eventually happen but right now I don’t feel like there is a strong enough rationale for the benefits - for example the potential taxes that often get talked about aren’t necessarily covering the external costs associated with legalization.
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@gt12 what about the disproportionate impact on Maori? that alone is worthy of serious consideration imo. Totally get your stance on gathering more info and mapping out more of those medium/long term impacts, whatever that might look like in NZ versus overseas examples. I am frustrated by the inanity of continuing the same approach that hasn't worked ever, anywhere, is no response at all.
I absolutely agree that any nuanced and detailed conversation about it was lost in the mire of 2020 and stuff, and that this is an issue that the Govt should have had some stones about and make an evidence based decision with a plan to address the genuine risks around legalising.
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@Paekakboyz said in Cannabis debate:
@gt12 what about the disproportionate impact on Maori? that alone is worthy of serious consideration imo. Totally get your stance on gathering more info and mapping out more of those medium/long term impacts, whatever that might look like in NZ versus overseas examples. I am frustrated by the inanity of continuing the same approach that hasn't worked ever, anywhere, is no response at all.
I absolutely agree that any nuanced and detailed conversation about it was lost in the mire of 2020 and stuff, and that this is an issue that the Govt should have had some stones about and make an evidence based decision with a plan to address the genuine risks around legalising.
Funnily enough I think there could be a worse disproportionate impact on Maori. For example, legalization could lead to worse outcomes for those at the bottom, kids getting in trouble at school etc etc for drugs and then being worse and further behind, more babies born testing Positive for marijuana exposure.
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@Paekakboyz said in Cannabis debate:
@gt12 what about the disproportionate impact on Maori? that alone is worthy of serious consideration imo. Totally get your stance on gathering more info and mapping out more of those medium/long term impacts, whatever that might look like in NZ versus overseas examples. I am frustrated by the inanity of continuing the same approach that hasn't worked ever, anywhere, is no response at all.
I absolutely agree that any nuanced and detailed conversation about it was lost in the mire of 2020 and stuff, and that this is an issue that the Govt should have had some stones about and make an evidence based decision with a plan to address the genuine risks around legalising.
What about treating Maori like everyone else in society.
What's our DNA got to do with this legislation?
What's the difference between a Maori and non Maori in the same socio economic bracket?
Prove to our faces that we're "disproportionately" vulnerable. Talk to many, try your theory out. Test it against the people you presume to speak for. Race may not be the sole determinant of the pitfalls of cannabis
Stop referring to us because of pity! (please 🙂)
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@Siam pity? Legalization as a singular action to improve outcomes and opportunities for folks of all backgrounds? No way, that degree of change needs many things happening simultaneously and over a fair whack of time.
If facts don't care about your feelings were do the figures on disproportionate criminality of maori re weed, and related longer term impacts of prison experience sit? -
@Paekakboyz said in Cannabis debate:
@Siam pity? Legalization as a singular action to improve outcomes and opportunities for folks of all backgrounds? No way, that degree of change needs many things happening simultaneously and over a fair whack of time.
If facts don't care about your feelings were do the figures on disproportionate criminality of maori re weed, and related longer term impacts of prison experience sit?Disproportionate compared to who exactly?