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@majorrage said in British Politics:
Actually suspect the longer the media / opposition goes on about them, the more the public is likely to turn back to Boris.
I'm sick of it as well, but I get the feeling it's the media on a campaign to oust Boris, so they're not going to stop coming up with covid breaches and sacking off important news until he's gone. It's the only sense I can make out of this constant barrage of bullshit.
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I'm the same but agree that it looks like this is not going away anytime soon. The press must be getting some details leaked from inside the Tory party and it's a constant drip, drip, drip. Which is quite canny really because, as you say, one party, two parties, who cares but when it is one after the other ad infitum then the sheer constant ness has an effect.
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My take on the current bollocks (which is probably bollocks anyway). Loads of leaks to the media and frankly loopy allegations of Islamophobia seems to show an internal war going on.
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Traditional Tories can't stand Boris as he's put up taxes which they say isn't needed. After all, the government only borrowed near £300 for every man, woman & child in the UK last month...
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New Northern MPs seem to have a sense of entitlement and don't think Boris has given them enough money
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Libertarian Tories hate him for lockdown, infringing liberty and not letting the virus rip.
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Remainer Tories hate Boris as he delivered Brexit.
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Ultra-Brexit Tories think he's gone soft on the EU
With an 80 seat majority and Starmer as LOTO, the factions are all jostling for power thinking they'll win easily in 2023/4. They probably won't.
There's also the "Liberal" establishment & media which still pines for the EU and would love to see BoJo depart. I reckon we'll soon start to hear from politicians and others on the need to re-join the EU or something close to it.
If Boris departs, grab the popcorn as the Tory in-fighting could well be something to watch.
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
My take on the current bollocks (which is probably bollocks anyway). Loads of leaks to the media and frankly loopy allegations of Islamophobia seems to show an internal war going on.
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Traditional Tories can't stand Boris as he's put up taxes which they say isn't needed. After all, the government only borrowed near £300 for every man, woman & child in the UK last month...
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New Northern MPs seem to have a sense of entitlement and don't think Boris has given them enough money
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Libertarian Tories hate him for lockdown, infringing liberty and not letting the virus rip.
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Remainer Tories hate Boris as he delivered Brexit.
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Ultra-Brexit Tories think he's gone soft on the EU
With an 80 seat majority and Starmer as LOTO, the factions are all jostling for power thinking they'll win easily in 2023/4. They probably won't.
There's also the "Liberal" establishment & media which still pines for the EU and would love to see BoJo depart. I reckon we'll soon start to hear from politicians and others on the need to re-join the EU or something close to it.
If Boris departs, grab the popcorn as the Tory in-fighting could well be something to watch.
Until and unless those factions can agree on a new leader, they're stuck with Boris.
I'm increasingly getting the feeling that most of this recent ruckus originated with the Downing Street corps/Civil Service liaison, and Boris's 'sin' is more a case of not knocking things on the head.
Threats to BBC licence fee haven't helped.
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
My take on the current bollocks (which is probably bollocks anyway). Loads of leaks to the media and frankly loopy allegations of Islamophobia seems to show an internal war going on.
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Traditional Tories can't stand Boris as he's put up taxes which they say isn't needed. After all, the government only borrowed near £300 for every man, woman & child in the UK last month...
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New Northern MPs seem to have a sense of entitlement and don't think Boris has given them enough money
-
Libertarian Tories hate him for lockdown, infringing liberty and not letting the virus rip.
-
Remainer Tories hate Boris as he delivered Brexit.
-
Ultra-Brexit Tories think he's gone soft on the EU
With an 80 seat majority and Starmer as LOTO, the factions are all jostling for power thinking they'll win easily in 2023/4. They probably won't.
There's also the "Liberal" establishment & media which still pines for the EU and would love to see BoJo depart. I reckon we'll soon start to hear from politicians and others on the need to re-join the EU or something close to it.
If Boris departs, grab the popcorn as the Tory in-fighting could well be something to watch.
Indeed. It's funny when it's opposition infighting but not so much the sitting government.
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
There's also the "Liberal" establishment & media which still pines for the EU and would love to see BoJo depart. I reckon we'll soon start to hear from politicians and others on the need to re-join the EU or something close to it.
I spoke too soon.....Michael Heseltine on Sky News today:
“It’s misleading the house, it’s misleading the people and it’s misleading the whole country in a general election because if it were to be established that the PM has been lying then that is going to open a can of worms because very large numbers of people – now the majority of people – believe that the Brexit case was actually a pack of lies… now if he proves to be a liar – to the public, to parliament – what does that do for the very large numbers of people who think it is a catestrophic misjudgement to have severed our good relationships with our European neighbours”
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
Interesting that BoJo has welcomed the police involvement - almost warmly.
Messages seem to be indicating that he doesn't think he broke the actual rules.
Which weren't in fact what people thought they were.
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@pakman said in British Politics:
@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
Interesting that BoJo has welcomed the police involvement - almost warmly.
Messages seem to be indicating that he doesn't think he broke the actual rules.
Which weren't in fact what people thought they were.
I'd imagine he's had lawyers crawling over this for weeks. Big question is if he asked his team to make sure the rules were kept or he was assured they were.
If the civil servants fucked up and went rogue (and it seems clear from emails they did) and if he was told it was all good, which seems a distinct possibility, then a Police inquiry could work out reasonably OK for him. There's the added bonus that it would reflect badly on Starmer who accused him of lying with minimal or zero evidence - not a good look for a supposed top lawyer.
The stakes are high for both sides.
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I'm of the view that both parties seem to think there is something to gain by dragging this out.
Boris thinks the longer this goes the less the public cares, especially as other issues come to light - namely, freedom day part 3.
Starmer think the longer this goes on the more people will turn against the Conservatives, not just Boris.I think both are wrong.
Ultimately it comes down to what people are prepared to do on voting day. It's very easy to tell a phone poll or anybody that you are done with the conservatives. But then on polling day when you look at the Lib Dems, then see Labour still with MP's on their books fo Long-Bailey, Sultana, Abbott etc ... can you really tick that box?
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
But then on polling day when you look at the Lib Dems, then see Labour still with MP's on their books fo Long-Bailey, Sultana, Abbott etc ... can you really tick that box?
The national debt has increased four-fold in the last 12 years (£78k per person with public sector pension obligations according to some experts) and with interest rates increasing along with inflation, and the tax burden reaching record levels, the UK is going to face some tough decisions on spending and taxation.
Labour (Rachel Reeves) wants to reduce income tax & NI and finance increased "investment in public services" by increasing taxes on BTL landlords, capital gains and share dividends. Sunak will probably spread the burden more broadly
People next GE will probably vote for the option which promises the least pain. Either way there's going to be some seriously tough decisions needing to be made.
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
But then on polling day when you look at the Lib Dems, then see Labour still with MP's on their books fo Long-Bailey, Sultana, Abbott etc ... can you really tick that box?
The national debt has increased four-fold in the last 12 years (£78k per person with public sector pension obligations according to some experts) and with interest rates increasing along with inflation, and the tax burden reaching record levels, the UK is going to face some tough decisions on spending and taxation.
Labour (Rachel Reeves) wants to reduce income tax & NI and finance increased "investment in public services" by increasing taxes on BTL landlords, capital gains and share dividends. Sunak will probably spread the burden more broadly
People next GE will probably vote for the option which promises the least pain. Either way there's going to be some seriously tough decisions needing to be made.
Yes, agree. I think it's all about looking who can make the most opportunities of what's in front of us. There is a very strong base to build on, but with increased global competition there is also always reasons for businesses to move offshore / elsewhere.
Personally, and this is from observations since living here, there are huge swathes of society which massively underpay and the rest of us have to pick up the tabs. Property developers are one of the things I'd have on my radar as well as well as capital gains on shares. It is possible to avoid tax on pretty much so everything if you are careful.
Personally I don't know what decisions I'd make. I'd probably more look at what is spent and how it can be saved. There is so much wastage, especially in the NHS. For a start I'd sack every single diversity officer!
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
On the plus side of Labour, they voted today 23-14 against Corbyn being allowed to rejoin the Labour party.
Starmer might be smarter than we think ... (doubt it though)
He could be, but would that actually mean much
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
@pakman said in British Politics:
@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
Interesting that BoJo has welcomed the police involvement - almost warmly.
Messages seem to be indicating that he doesn't think he broke the actual rules.
Which weren't in fact what people thought they were.
I'd imagine he's had lawyers crawling over this for weeks. Big question is if he asked his team to make sure the rules were kept or he was assured they were.
If the civil servants fucked up and went rogue (and it seems clear from emails they did) and if he was told it was all good, which seems a distinct possibility, then a Police inquiry could work out reasonably OK for him. There's the added bonus that it would reflect badly on Starmer who accused him of lying with minimal or zero evidence - not a good look for a supposed top lawyer.
The stakes are high for both sides.
But then there will inevitably be, and maybe rightly so, the argument that "you made the rules but someone has to explain them to you"? You have to ask yourself would that argument stand up for the man on the Clapham Omnibus?
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@catogrande said in British Politics:
But then there will inevitably be, and maybe rightly so, the argument that "you made the rules but someone has to explain them to you"? You have to ask yourself would that argument stand up for the man on the Clapham Omnibus?
Good point, but not quite what I meant. If he asked his people to ensure the rules were being followed and they didn't, it gives him an out. Don't forget Starmer has said having a few beers after a busy day is quite OK.
Report is reportedly out tomorrow so we'll find out soon enough
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
This really got me thinking.
I'm firmly in the fuck off forever, you made your bed now lie in it, brigade. However, if the leopard has changed her spots, then she's got quite a good point.
Her journey from supporting ISIS and beheading people to becoming a passionate advocate of preventing people becoming terrorists seems to parallel the collapse of ISIS, her journey to the refugee camp and her attempts to return to the UK. Quite remarkable, really.
No need for her to return. if needs be, just send someone over to her camp to interview her and find out why she turned to ISIS,
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@victor-meldrew said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
This really got me thinking.
I'm firmly in the fuck off forever, you made your bed now lie in it, brigade. However, if the leopard has changed her spots, then she's got quite a good point.
Her journey from supporting ISIS and beheading people to becoming a passionate advocate of preventing people becoming terrorists seems to parallel the collapse of ISIS, her journey to the refugee camp and her attempts to return to the UK. Quite remarkable, really.
No need for her to return. if needs be, just send someone over to her camp to interview her and find out why she turned to ISIS,
She has a point though that she must have some serious knowledge which could help with the war on terror.
However, reality is also that if she doesn't appear dead in the next couple of days, then it's more likely she was part of some infiltration unit.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
She has a point though that she must have some serious knowledge which could help with the war on terror.
Yet her arguments to return to the UK previously were she was too young, duped and wasn't really involved. I doubt if she could say anything not already known.
Not a great fan of cancelling citizenship and making people stateless, but if she was allowed back, it may be hard to get a conviction on terrorism charges. Imagine her walking free... Better a deal where she pleaded guilty to Terrorism charges and got a hefty 20+ year sentence
However, reality is also that if she doesn't appear dead in the next couple of days, then it's more likely she was part of some infiltration unit.
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