Black Lives Matter
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@MajorRage said in Black Lives Matter:
@No-Quarter as much as I agree with Rembrandt's post I think this response is missing the mark as I don't necessarily think they are raised to believe they need extra help.
I'm actually quite interested in what they have to say when they don't have a platform / think they are some sort of activists. We've been doing it a bit at work, and so have most other companies in the Greater London area. This is the feedback I'd say seems the most consistent
- Met police do racially profile, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Groups of menacing black youths are usually trouble
- Would love to see more Black leaders locally and regionally to feel more included in the UK
- Generally don't actually want to cause trouble, and hence although supportive of BLM, not fans of it - if that makes sense.
Quite interesting stuff.
Fuck common sense is getting really expensive these days.
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@MiketheSnow Thats why it's in short supply.
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@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@No-Quarter we never hear from black people what they want, or if they subscribe to the victimhood mentality. Edit: sorry rage, just read your post
Has anyone properly surveyed the black people that so many claim to speak for?Do they like the blm organisation or message?
Who are the black people? Am I one? My mother? My cousins? Is it a one drop rule? African origins only? Skin colour chart?
This is pertinent in the UK.
There are as many differences within BAME as between BAME and UK white society.
And within UK white society.
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@MajorRage said in Black Lives Matter:
@No-Quarter as much as I agree with Rembrandt's post I think this response is missing the mark as I don't necessarily think they are raised to believe they need extra help.
I'm actually quite interested in what they have to say when they don't have a platform / think they are some sort of activists. We've been doing it a bit at work, and so have most other companies in the Greater London area. This is the feedback I'd say seems the most consistent
- Met police do racially profile, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Groups of menacing black youths are usually trouble
- Would love to see more Black leaders locally and regionally to feel more included in the UK
- Generally don't actually want to cause trouble, and hence although supportive of BLM, not fans of it - if that makes sense.
Quite interesting stuff.
My wife (sample size: 1) finds it condescending as fuck, and has also encountered young black people that firmly believe the world is against them because of the colour of their skin. Shoving this stuff down our youths throats has real effects on their mental health. Yes there are some racist assholes out there, but all of this crap about "systemic racism" just makes them lose hope as how can they expect to succeed in a system that is rigged against them? It's not true at all, and I really loathe the people pushing this bullshit.
In fact talking about my wife, she has said she has more respect for the white supremacists, as at least they're honest about what they think. She absolutely loathes these racist lefties pushing these ideas and then hiding behind "compassion". She's convinced a big portion of them are just straight up racist and continue to push ideas around white privilege down everyone's throats as it ensures white people are always at the top of the hierarchy.
@MiketheSnow is bang on though, the differences of opinion within racial groups are larger than the differences between them. Making assumptions about someone's lived experiences and opinions based on skin colour is so stupid I don't even know where to begin.
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@MajorRage said in Black Lives Matter:
@No-Quarter as much as I agree with Rembrandt's post I think this response is missing the mark as I don't necessarily think they are raised to believe they need extra help.
I'm actually quite interested in what they have to say when they don't have a platform / think they are some sort of activists. We've been doing it a bit at work, and so have most other companies in the Greater London area. This is the feedback I'd say seems the most consistent
- Met police do racially profile, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Groups of menacing black youths are usually trouble
- Would love to see more Black leaders locally and regionally to feel more included in the UK
- Generally don't actually want to cause trouble, and hence although supportive of BLM, not fans of it - if that makes sense.
Quite interesting stuff.
Think I can talk to this from a US perspective at least, and I don't think I would be going out on a limb to say overwhemingly black people here believe that systemic racism , unconscious and conscious racial bias exist here. Overwhelmingly black people believe in the statement "Black Lives Matter", however I am guessing that the majority could not tell you who is running the website who trademarked the name or even what their platform is. Overwhelmingly black people reject the action of racial profiling by the police and here would absolutely consider "Groups of menacing black youths are usually trouble" as racist.
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@DMX said in Black Lives Matter:
@MajorRage said in Black Lives Matter:
@No-Quarter as much as I agree with Rembrandt's post I think this response is missing the mark as I don't necessarily think they are raised to believe they need extra help.
I'm actually quite interested in what they have to say when they don't have a platform / think they are some sort of activists. We've been doing it a bit at work, and so have most other companies in the Greater London area. This is the feedback I'd say seems the most consistent
- Met police do racially profile, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Groups of menacing black youths are usually trouble
- Would love to see more Black leaders locally and regionally to feel more included in the UK
- Generally don't actually want to cause trouble, and hence although supportive of BLM, not fans of it - if that makes sense.
Quite interesting stuff.
Think I can talk to this from a US perspective at least, and I don't think I would be going out on a limb to say overwhemingly black people here believe that systemic racism , unconscious and conscious racial bias exist here. Overwhelmingly black people believe in the statement "Black Lives Matter", however I am guessing that the majority could not tell you who is running the website who trademarked the name or even what their platform is. Overwhelmingly black people reject the action of racial profiling by the police and here would absolutely consider "Groups of menacing black youths are usually trouble" as racist.
What's new about that, tough? Hasn't there always been a (probably justified) sense in the black community that "The Man" has been working against them?
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@junior said in Black Lives Matter:
@DMX said in Black Lives Matter:
@MajorRage said in Black Lives Matter:
@No-Quarter as much as I agree with Rembrandt's post I think this response is missing the mark as I don't necessarily think they are raised to believe they need extra help.
I'm actually quite interested in what they have to say when they don't have a platform / think they are some sort of activists. We've been doing it a bit at work, and so have most other companies in the Greater London area. This is the feedback I'd say seems the most consistent
- Met police do racially profile, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Groups of menacing black youths are usually trouble
- Would love to see more Black leaders locally and regionally to feel more included in the UK
- Generally don't actually want to cause trouble, and hence although supportive of BLM, not fans of it - if that makes sense.
Quite interesting stuff.
Think I can talk to this from a US perspective at least, and I don't think I would be going out on a limb to say overwhemingly black people here believe that systemic racism , unconscious and conscious racial bias exist here. Overwhelmingly black people believe in the statement "Black Lives Matter", however I am guessing that the majority could not tell you who is running the website who trademarked the name or even what their platform is. Overwhelmingly black people reject the action of racial profiling by the police and here would absolutely consider "Groups of menacing black youths are usually trouble" as racist.
What's new about that, tough? Hasn't there always been a (probably justified) sense in the black community that "The Man" has been working against them?
To be honest I am not sure who "The Man" is in a context outside of '70s movies but if you are asking what has changed ,over the past few years I would say camera phones, social media and Trump!
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@MiketheSnow said in Black Lives Matter:
Eveyone is entitled to their point of view but always amuses me here how excited some on social media or certain news channels seem to find such glee when a person of color espouses their political point of view. Plenty of youtube clips which I generally refrain from posting which will show a different point of view.
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Rough scenes from Philadelphia last night.
Black man attacks police with knife, gets shot dead (on camera). Cue riots, fires, attacks on police and mass looting of businesses. At one point a truck ran through a row of cops running over a female officer.
BLM with some last minute battle ground state campaigning for Trump.
(Warning rough scenes)
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Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
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@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial Valid point. I wonder if they had tasers to defuse the situation rather than going for the fatal option when being approached with a knife?
I have no idea, hence a reluctance to comment/criticize.
However, over time the gun laws and attitudes in the US have lead to this point where policing has become fighting rather than managing. That is always going to impact some communities more than others and create accusations and occasions of bias.
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@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
If there are more incidents like that young cop getting murdered at a traffic stop here in Auckland, that might change. A regular occurance in the US where guns are more freely available, and open carry is allowed.
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@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
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@MN5 said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
I know it was. I thought it was obvious that I was talking in very general terms. It was more to compare the general approach in NZ to the US.
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@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
@MN5 said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
I know it was. I thought it was obvious that I was talking in very general terms. It was more to compare the general approach in NZ to the US.
Almost a pointless comparison though, even in general terms. If you are a cop in the US, the odds of you being shot at traffic stop are asrtominically higher than in NZ, so of course you get difference policing styles and training.
The US cops need significantly more funding to handle that stress.
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@MN5 said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
It’s county by county and that’s the big problem - 3000+ different training regimes plus the state troopers.
At least in Commonwealth countries all cops are going to the same state/provincial/national academy and getting taught from the same playbook. Those academies are generally well resourced and for the most part the standard of admission is reasonably high (some may argue that,
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@Kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
@MN5 said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
I know it was. I thought it was obvious that I was talking in very general terms. It was more to compare the general approach in NZ to the US.
Almost a pointless comparison though, even in general terms. If you are a cop in the US, the odds of you being shot at traffic stop are asrtominically higher than in NZ, so of course you get difference policing styles and training.
The US cops need significantly more funding to handle that stress.
It was never my point that they should be more like us. I was simply commenting on how different the policing situations had evolved and how our situation would seem quite incredible to them (partly for the reasons you state)
There is also the chicken and egg situation which is what we have been trying to keep under control for decades. If we arm up then the baddies do too, and vice-versa.
One thing I have noticed myself is that police that openly carry act in a very different manner to those that don't. I'm not criticising, just saying that it has a behavioural effect. I guess that if you know you have a gun on your hip you don't have to act as nice?